Sliding into first with a double bag?
 

Close play at first base, the runner decides to slides and slides into the white bag. The umpire calls her safe. My understanding the is the "safety" is there to avoid a collision and unless you are turning to go to second base, the runner needs to use the safety bag. Did he make the right call?

If a batter/runner goes to the white portion of the bag, it is an appeal that must be made by the defense prior to the batter/runner returning to the base. Since the player slid into the base and is still there, there is no appeal to be made before they can return.

The runner never got up and it stirred up controversy when it got questioned immediately after the play. All the umpire kept saying was she has the right to slide. I agrees but what bag should she had slid into?

The batter/runner is suppose to go to the colored portion of the bag, but, if they dont it is an appeal the defense must make before the runner returns to the base. Since the batter/runner slid into the base and never left it there really isnt anything to appeal.

What exactly was questioned? If they were only questioning the fact that the BR slid then the umpire gave the correct answer. She does have the right to slide although I question whether or not it gets the BR to the bag quicker than simply running thru the bag.

If the defense while on the base appeals that the runner has only touched the white bag or more importantly missed the colored bag
it would be a proper live ball appeal and the BR would be out.

If the BR touches the colored bag or if a pitch is thrown or a play attempted (etc.) before a proper appeal is made it is too late and there is no penalty for sliding into the wrong bag.

(Edited Fri 05/17/2013)Whoops! The red text above is wrong as you will see if you read the rest of the thread. If the runner slides into the white, and never passes 1B, and does not interfere with the defensive player taking a throw at 1B, you have nothing and the offense has no time available to appeal the BR not hitting the colored portion.

Should the BR have been called out because she slid into the white or does it not matter what bag they slid into?

That has already been answered. It is an appeal play the defense must properly appeal. The umpire cannot just call the runner out for going to the wrong portion of the base, the defense must appeal it prior to the runner returning to the base. If the runner never left the base to begin with, there is nothing to appeal.

RK's answer is exactly right... is there a reason you have to not believe him?

Sliding into the base or running into it is no difference in the rules, except that the runner stays on the base, (presumably :rolleyes:).

The "turning to go to second base" is not part of the rule.
Neither is the wording "avoid a collision"; although that is the result.
The rule is only about whether there is a play on the BR at 1st.

What if she is still only touching the white (never touched the colored) portion and F3 is holding foot on the white while stating the appeal for not touching the colored portion?

There is literally no way to get an out here. You MUST appeal before BR returns to first... since she never left first in this case, there's no timeframe available for an appeal.

This disagrees with what the rest of us are saying. :(

Agreed, that is the verbiage I was trying to come up with :)

Of course if she never left first, it is impossible for her to return to first. :D

And
 

Once the batter/runner has achieved first base the entire base becomes one big base. No appeal to made therefore no out.

Quinleygirl, welcome a(board) !! :)

Which is why I like discussion on this board!

The runner is required (if a play is being made) to touch the colored portion of the bag. I've often heard this taught as treating it just like missing the base. So I was thinking that you could still appeal until the runner corrected her mistake and touched the colored bag... much like if a runner slid to 2B but missed it the defense could appeal missing the base by tagging the base unless the runner returns first. (Sure they will probably just tag the runner off base, but in theory they could.) But the double base is different....

Rereading double base rules in both ASA and NFHS the timeframe for appeal ends when the runner returns to the base. The important part that I missed was that both rule sets specify they may return to either the white or the colored portion of the double base. So as my brothers have stated since she never left the base then she has "returned" so remaining on the white is just fine.

Really the only penalty for sliding into the white would be if somehow this slide interfered with the throw.

Proof that you can drink beer, watch NCAA ball on TV, watch it snow outside, and still learn something all at the same time!

Okay, speaking ASA, look at it this way. When the BR reaches 1B, the player is no longer a BR. For the R, the color of the portions is irrelevant.

What are you going to do if your partner suspends play and then you get an appeal and the runner STILL hasn't moved off the white? Your stance that the runner hasn't returned is still true, but are you going to accept the appeal? Same criteria you are basing your ruling upon still exists.

Now comes the part I hate the most, but this would come up in a discussion on the rule. "But Blue, the purpose of the rule is to avoid the possibility of a collision and that is just what my runner did by sliding. So, you are going to penalize my guy for doing something for the safety of the other player?"

It is a bullshit argument, but I can hear it now. :(

Yep, your right. Never had issue where BR slid in to 1B and the portion of the base she slid to was questioned. Good discussion.

Nice of you to update, and well worded. :cool:

I'm not getting your point. :confused:

Well, in all honesty, I think the beer helped. :D

And on a brighter note..our May snow which fell all afternoon yesterday and last night has quit and seems to be melting. I hope tomorrow is sun, we're gonna need it if my Monday night games are gonna happen!

Where in Alaska are you, Anchorage, Fairbanks areas or coastal?

I'm in Anchorage. We had two big storms in April two weeks before our high school season was to start. In Anchorage we got started a week and a half late, while teams in Fairbanks (who also had a lot of late snow) had their first opportunities to play outdoors at their first game which was an away game down here!

Then we had snow on May 5 and lost that whole day, now another freaky May snowstorm this weekend. (It is May, right??)

Our entire high school season is only five weeks long so losing the equivalent of two weeks really hurts.

:eek:

Unlike my days umpiring the sport with the small, white, stitched ball, I can honestly say I have never EVER seen a BR slide into first base, much less do so on the white side of a double-first.

I have seen it, but it is rare. And IMO not a good idea as the slide will slow the BR down prior to reaching the bag. Running thru the bag is faster.The few times I have seen it the bag being slid into (white or colored) never became an issue.

This is probably why the whole appeal of missing the colored base is centered around "returning to the base (either portion)" as the rule makers were thinking of a BR running thru 1B and only touching the white.

Still it's good to talk about those things that "never happen" becuase someday on some field somewhere it will. Spending time talking about weird what-ifs can only increase one's understanding of the rules.

Only time I've ever seen it, and the only time it makes sense to me, is on a sudden swipe tag attempt after an errant throw.