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-   -   Let's Talk Courtesy Runner (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/95042-lets-talk-courtesy-runner.html)

Chess Ref Wed May 15, 2013 11:47am
Let's Talk Courtesy Runner
 
In my 8+ years of umping I have never had this come up...Then twice in the last week.

One Fed, and one ASA.

Courtesy Runner for pitcher. After a couple of pitches Head Coach calls time to speak with me...

Coach: Blue I want to replace my CR,she's missing signals, what can I do ?

The option I gave the Fed Head Coach was

1. Sub for Pitcher and put sub on base.

Basing this on 8-9-6.

The option I gave ASA Coach was too bad, so sad, can't do anything.

Did I miss anything?

CecilOne Wed May 15, 2013 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref (Post 894287)
In my 8+ years of umping I have never had this come up...Then twice in the last week.

One Fed, and one ASA.

Courtesy Runner for pitcher. After a couple of pitches Head Coach calls time to speak with me...

Coach: Blue I want to replace my CR,she's missing signals, what can I do ?

The option I gave the Fed Head Coach was

1. Sub for Pitcher and put sub on base.

Basing this on 8-9-6.

The option I gave ASA Coach was too bad, so sad, can't do anything.

Did I miss anything?
I thought both rules are the same, so thanks for the heads-up for NFHS.
As you said, no replacement except for injury or DQ in ASA.

IRISHMAFIA Wed May 15, 2013 03:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref (Post 894287)
In my 8+ years of umping I have never had this come up...Then twice in the last week.

One Fed, and one ASA.

Courtesy Runner for pitcher. After a couple of pitches Head Coach calls time to speak with me...

Coach: Blue I want to replace my CR,she's missing signals, what can I do ?

The option I gave the Fed Head Coach was

1. Sub for Pitcher and put sub on base.

Basing this on 8-9-6.

The option I gave ASA Coach was too bad, so sad, can't do anything.

Did I miss anything?
And why can you not enter a sub for the pitcher in ASA?

CecilOne Wed May 15, 2013 04:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 894355)
And why can you not enter a sub for the pitcher in ASA?
What about 8.10.F ?

Chess Ref Wed May 15, 2013 04:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 894357)
What about 8.10.F ?
I'm was looking at that also, but after Irish asked the question I reread it.

It states 'for whom they are running may not return to run", so possibly a sub is not for "whom" they are running, and a sub would be allowed. :confused:

IRISHMAFIA Wed May 15, 2013 04:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 894357)
What about 8.10.F ?
And if I substitute for the pitcher of record, why cannot that substitute enter the game for the courtesy runner? After all, that player is not the pitcher of record until she actually pitches, correct?

CecilOne Wed May 15, 2013 04:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref (Post 894361)
I'm was looking at that also, but after Irish asked the question I reread it.

It states 'for whom they are running may not return to run", so possibly a sub is not for "whom" they are running, and a sub would be allowed. :confused:
If that is the correct logic, only in a rule book or IRS or campaign politics. ;)

CecilOne Wed May 15, 2013 04:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 894363)
And if I substitute for the pitcher of record, why cannot that substitute enter the game for the courtesy runner? After all, that player is not the pitcher of record until she actually pitches, correct?
Isn't that the same as the "top of the first" exception?

Certainly seems to violate the intent.

MD Longhorn Wed May 15, 2013 04:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 894366)
Isn't that the same as the "top of the first" exception?

Certainly seems to violate the intent.
Curious... how? What do you think the intent of the rule is, and how would that particular substitution violate it?

EsqUmp Wed May 15, 2013 07:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 894368)
Curious... how? What do you think the intent of the rule is, and how would that particular substitution violate it?
In the top of the first inning only, the pitcher and catcher are identified as those players listed on the line-up as the pitcher and catcher. ASA Rule 8-10-B

IRISHMAFIA Wed May 15, 2013 07:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 894366)
Isn't that the same as the "top of the first" exception?

Certainly seems to violate the intent.
How does it violate the intent? If the coach wants to burn a player's entry into the game, that's up to him/her.

ASA has no restrictions on substitutions. You can effect a legal substitution/re-entry at any time for any player without penalty.

Why would you think this would be different? Understand, if they want to make it different, that is up to them, but as of right now, there is nothing stating it cannot be done.

AtlUmpSteve Wed May 15, 2013 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 894366)
Isn't that the same as the "top of the first" exception?

Certainly seems to violate the intent.
I would read the intent to keep from getting a "free" runner; wouldn't having to use a sub and burn the re-entry for the pitcher be enough to be cosider not "free"?

AtlUmpSteve Wed May 15, 2013 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 894390)
In the top of the first inning only, the pitcher and catcher are identified as those players listed on the line-up as the pitcher and catcher. ASA Rule 8-10-B
True statement. Not sure what it adds to this topic, but true nonetheless.

chapmaja Wed May 15, 2013 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref (Post 894287)
In my 8+ years of umping I have never had this come up...Then twice in the last week.

One Fed, and one ASA.

Courtesy Runner for pitcher. After a couple of pitches Head Coach calls time to speak with me...

Coach: Blue I want to replace my CR,she's missing signals, what can I do ?

The option I gave the Fed Head Coach was

1. Sub for Pitcher and put sub on base.

Basing this on 8-9-6.

The option I gave ASA Coach was too bad, so sad, can't do anything.

Did I miss anything?
I think you got the Fed one correct. The only legal option in that case for a substitute to be entered into the game for the pitcher and the sub take the position of the CR on base.

I am not sure the ASA rule, as I don't start my ASA season for a couple weeks, and we have a league rule for CR's that is different than the ASA rule.

IRISHMAFIA Thu May 16, 2013 06:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chapmaja (Post 894403)

I am not sure the ASA rule, as I don't start my ASA season for a couple weeks, and we have a league rule for CR's that is different than the ASA rule.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........................


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