Check Swing Appeal on U3K
This has not happened but to me personally, but...
Pitch is low, batter tries to check swing, PU calls Ball. Pitch touches ground and gets by F2 and rolls to backstop. When F2 gets back to plate area, F2 appeals the check swing. PU says, "YES!". F2 tags B. Here comes OC. All I can think of is "too sad, too bad". Even with 10.C.3. Just askin'...:confused: |
A couple of things here that might need some clarification:
1) I'm assuming you meant the base umpire says "Yes!" 2) I don't understand your reference to 10.c.3. There is no such casebook reference Now, 10-2-3m might be what you're referring to. This is a reversed decision that clearly put the offense at a disadvantage. I believe this is a good situation to use 10-2-3m and give the BR 1st if at all possible. (i.e.: the ball went all the way to the backstop and it took F2 some time to retrieve the ball.) My preferred mechanic on this sort of play is to immediately (even before I'm asked) go to the BU on a potential D3K situation where the ball gets away from the catcher. This way, neither the offense and the defense are disadvantaged. |
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But I do have a question regarding your preferred mechanic. Is that an approved mechanic for all softball orgs? I know that going to a partner without the defense asking is taught in baseball. Another baseball mechanic (mentioned in the MLB Umpire Manual) is for the base umpire to go ahead and call that an batter offered at the pitch, even if the plate umpire doesn't go to him. I've never heard that taught in softball clinics. |
Since it is not an appeal, the plate umpire can and should go immediately.
The batter put herself in jeopardy by not checking her swing. I'm not overly sympathetic if she gets tagged out. Then again, I wouldn't have helped create this type of situation in the first place. There is no approved mechanic for the base umpire chiming in early on a check swing. If the batter thinks that it is a dropped third strike and she takes off, I have no issue with the base umpiring becoming more demonstrative and calling the batter out. But, that doesn't apply on a checked swing. |
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What makes sense to me is not allow the defense to get a "cheap out" by tracking down the ball, having the catcher return to the plate near the batter, then ask for an appeal so she can make the easy tag out if it turns out to be a DK3. While we have the right to rectify a situation where an overturned call puts a team at a distinct disadvantage, that doesn't mean you're not going to wind up with a very ugly situation if you have to start placing runners on a late check with your partner. Why not avoid it and have this situation played under a more organic circumstance by asking for help right away? The only other "fair" thing to do here might be to disallow the "appeal". However, some codes do not allow you to not go for help. |
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While people want to hold the defense accountable here, it is the batter who placed herself in jeopardy, no one else. If there is anything cheap here, it would be awarding a runner to a team that did nothing to deserve such an award. |
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I agree that the "norm" here, or the default, should simply be an out. |
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I cannot conceive of a circumstance where I would award a batter 1st base on a D3K where she didn't run. |
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Yet, you would award this base because the defense sinned by (what, exactly)?? The catcher not catching the pitch the batter struck out on (the most common are balls in the dirt, 42' drops or changeups, and high rises; they fooled the batter, and now you make the catcher accountable??), and not appealing before they complete playing the ball (why would they; if the batter isn't running, no reason on their part to ask yet)? This makes the best argument for a base umpire to NEVER call it a swing, because the result is WAY worse than "missing" the swing. Because I see your argument as giving an unintended and undeserved award to the batter who struck out, and did nothing to protect herself. This is as inconceivable to me as unringing the incorrect "foul ball" bell. |
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How is that any different? In this case play, the pitch resulted in Ball Four in the batter's mind, whereas in what we're discussing, the pitch resulted in Ball One, Two or Three. Whether she casually trots to first on the one, or she stays at home on the other, she's reacting to the PU's initial call and her belief that she didn't swing. Are you suggesting that we have different outcomes for the different situations? |
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To clarify - I'm in the school that says on a close swing that may be strike three and happens to get away from the catcher, I'm asking my partner RIGHT THEN. This clears ALL of the situations up that have been discussed here. Not asking causes one team or the other to be disadvantaged - in some cases to the point that we then have to deal with the fact that the rules tell us to rectify a situation that is caused by an umpire's erroneous or changed call. If we ask for help, unprompted, right then, the players can play it out - and we NEVER have to fix a situation caused by a changed call. |
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I have an old e-copy of the ASA Rule Book, and it only mentions in a rule supplement that the catcher requests for help. But it doesn't specifically prohibit the offense from doing so. I'll have to reference the latest ASA rule book when I get home to see if there's something more definitive. As for the NCAA, the rule book does allow either the offense or defense to ask for help, under rule 11.13.5. But it also says the umpire may (but not shall) ask for help. |
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