VHSL "uniforms"
 

New VHSL shirts and hats are on the VHSL web site...good news is that they aren't as ugly as the other sports new stuff from Cliff Keen... $$$$ anyone?

Van Halen Softball League?

Virginia High School League....owned and operated by Cliff Keen

Not sure how you access to make a purchase. If you click the CK link on the VHSL website to order, it takes you to the main CK website. But the only state association listed in the drop down menu is South Carolina.

I was thinking Vampires Have Sanguine Likes. ;)

http://www.vhsl.org/doc/upload/CK-So...SS-Mock-Up.jpg

Not too shabby. Much better than what they did to basketball officials.

I guess it's cooler with no back.

Seriously, a vendor forces you to buy new shirts! :( :(

The vendor isn't forcing anything, the VHSL elected to enter into that partnership.

Like down here in Florida with the FHSAA and Honig's. Guess they don't want you to show up to games in worn out uniforms. :)

Hate the flag on the sleeve.....hate the flag on any athletic gear.

§176. Respect for flag
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
• (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
• (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
• (c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
• (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
• (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
• (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
• (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
• (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
• (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
• (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
• (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

Yes, the flag code disallows how it's generally used; unless one considers an officiating organization to be a "patriotic organization." It's a stretch.

But it's also unenforceable.

Unenforceable by law; but not by popular demand!

VHSL = Vendor Has State Locked

much better than "Vampires Have Sanguine Likes" and more generally appealing than Van Halen ;)

After 9/11, the US Flag could be found on virtually every athletic uniform being worn in the professional and amateur ranks. Nobody that I'm aware of filed a lawsuit claiming it was against the law.

I support any uniformed organization that wishes to display the Flag. But that's because I spent 30 years in the military.

The official ASA hat still has a small Flag on it, doesn't it?

Back on point, I'm not too happy that I now have to buy a specific hat and shirt to umpire high school games here. I already have three shirts that I've ironed on the VHSL patch that I'll have to essentially throw away. And what the heck was wrong with plain navy hats that I use for multiple organizations?

Remember when people started with the antenna flags and then flying them off a window attachment? Now, do you remember how dirty they became and tattered?

You want to hold the flag up as a matter of respect and honor and patriotism, the first thing you should worry about is to applying that same respect and honor to that symbol. Attaching it to anything including an athletic uniform or hat or glove or whatever where it will become soiled or damaged is just as disrespectful as throwing it to the ground.

When I was in the military, the flag was not part of the uniform, nor were you allowed to attach it to any part of your uniform.

It is now, at least in the Army for the camouflage uniform.

The link now works. The shirt is $49.95, plus $2.50 tax, plus $7.60 for USPS shipping (cheapest mode). That's $60.05 for one shirt!

OUCH!

I wonder if we'll ever know how much of that ends up in Charlottesville.....

That is high! But you can't do their game wo their shirt. And it's only one game fee.

Of course, it is. It is a feel-good token for most people, but I still do not care for it on any uniform.

Clothes, including uniforms, get dirty especially those designed for working.

True. But historically, flags were used to lead and inspire combatants on the battlefields. And sports participants are combatants of sorts.

As you can probably tell, I do have US Flags on a number of my umpire shirts. In fact, I use the reverse US Flag on my right sleeve, which has been a source of discussion to some. I once had an older gentleman come up to me at the concession stand after I finished a LL baseball game. I assumed he was going to either ask me a question about a rule, or just give me the usual "Good game, Blue," comment that follows our games.

No, he accused me of improperly displaying the US Flag by wearing it backwards. I tried to convince him that it was appropriate to wear it that way on the uniform, because the field of stars are required to be closer to the heart. He said he used to be in the military and he'd never seen it displayed that way. I replied, "Sir, I still am in the military, and this is the Flag I wear on my work uniform every day."

I understand that this year a couple of vendors were added to the list so that Honigs does not have a monopoly,

Great answer.

FWIW, I tend to agree with Irishmafia. I was brought up thinking the flag was special and to be treated almost as a holy object.

I still get uncomfortable when I see the ragged flags on antennas, or the unlit flags at night or those left up in the rain and especially the 23 torn and tattered flags surrounding the used car lot.

I also tend to think wearing them on any and everything not related to the US Government cheapens the flag.

BUT that's just my opinion.... I understand that some who wear the flag (despite the code) have good intentions.

Now, don't ask me my opinion of people hollaring, whistling and shouting during the last 8 measures of the Star Spangled Banner!!! ;)

I do know an organization (a rather large one) that I used to belong to that insisted we all get new apparel with the flag on the sleeve. A few refused, were threatened, and then when those few (most of whom were ex-military) explained why, trotted out the flag code, and threatened to sue, the organization backed down.

(And note, former organization ... I didn't mention your name!!!! :) )

New VHSL Uniforms
 

Don't know how this thread morphed into two parts, but here's my two cents on both.

As for the uniform shirts, VHSL members get a 20% discount on the Cliff Keen merchandise. That's still $40 a shirt + tax + shipping, or about $50 each.

Being in three officiating groups (volleyball, basketball, and softball), I currently own 16 official shirts in all those groups. If I just buy two new shirts in each sport, that's $240 that I shouldn't have to spend since all my shirts are in excellent condition.

Not sure yet if the softball caps will be mandatory, but we can add in another $15 each for those.

I think the VHSL's 'association' with Cliff Keen is just a money-making venture for the VHSL. They entered into this agreement not realizing that the almost 3000 officials in Virginia are going to have to fork out nearly a quarter of a million dollars to re-outfit themselves. Not sure what percentage of that money will go to Charlottesville, but I'll bet it's not a small amount.

I'm hoping the local associations will get together and boycott this mandated policy before it becomes effective in the 2014-15 school year. The VHSL has stipulated that all STATE-LEVEL playoff officials must wear these new shirts starting next school year. So some of our people will have to purchase them while others do not.

Now for part two, our association has worn the American flag on the back of our softball shirts for years to show our pride in our country. Not one person has objected to this policy. The flag patch itself tends to hold up better than the shirt, so I've never had a problem with the patch getting soiled or ragged. IMHO, I think it's a great way to display your patriotism. I've yet to hear a TV or radio commentator make any negative comment on an official who's wearing the flag.

God bless the USA!

Funny that the flag patch got into this thread. There is a guy in our local association who wears a "camo-version" of the flag on his shirts.

Does he enforce uniform violations on players as required by the rules org. he working?
:)

And because most umpires don't know they'll be doing State-level games until a week or two out at best, many more will have to buy the shirts and hats in anticipation that they may get the nod. They won't want to risk ordering them at the last minute and finding out they're on back-order.

For the record, from the United States Flag Code: "(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations."

This is the reason I have never used a flag patch on my umpire uniform. We do not meet those requirements as sports officials. The blatant misuse of the flag by such organizations as ASA does not make it okay. It merely shows a lack of knowledge concerning the proper way to display a flag.

"The flag should never be used as a costume or athletic uniform" refers to actual material designed to be work as a costume or uniform, not a patch on the uniform. In other words, you can't drape yourself in a flag like you're going to a toga party.

The fact that it says that the flag may be affixed to certain uniforms doesn't mean that it can't be affixed to others.

But you ran right past the important paragraph:

(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

There is not a spot on an athletic uniform that cannot be soiled or damaged, even that of an official.

Don't believe that sports officials organizations qualify as "military, firemen, policemen or a patriotic organization."

Yeah, I skipped that because you had already thoroughly covered that issue, IMO.

I wish the ideals the flag is supposed to represent commanded even half the respect the icon seems to get.

You're still not reading correctly. The fact that it says that the flag can be worn on a certain item doesn't prohibit wearing it on other items.

It isn't an "including, but limited to" sentence. If it was, it would say, "including, but limited to..."

Some of you are taking one phrase out of context.
"(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations."

The "However" means that these are the only exceptions.

And "(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way. " confirms the reason for not wearing the flag in a fabric type material.

Of course, there are many violations of the Flag Code everyday, but maybe we can start with this controllable one.

Disagree. The sentence is specific to the uniform of members of a specific uniformed organizations:

However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.

If it was meant to be presented in a non-exclusive manner (and the wording isn't that restrictive as it is), it should have read to show these organizations/avocations as examples. I see no such wording included.

There doesn't seem to be any part of the paragraph that allows for interpretation other than what qualifies as a member of the four components offered: military personnel, firemen, policemen or a patriotic organization. The final one most likely being the most contentious of the group.

And yet, military personnel and firemen are cited as people who can wear flag patches. So, who exposes those patches to adverse conditions more, sports officials or firemen?

Serious question: For those of you who adamantly oppose the Flag patch on umpire uniforms, how many of you do ASA ball, and have you removed the Flag off of the hat or gotten a customized ASA hat that doesn't have the Flag on it?

I never said I agree with everything. IMO, the flag is a flag and not a decoration on ANY clothing or apparel regardless of its purpose or who is wearing it.

My discussion here is based on what is written and what I believe it means. Obviously, others do not agree and that is okay. I'm not so adamant that I don't understand when I'm in someone else's domain, I play by their rules or go home.

It is not unusual to see me wearing an ASA hat without a flag locally. When I work Championship Play, I change hats often, keeping what sweat there may be to a minimum and the hat as clean as possible. At the end of the game/day, the hat is folded and stored properly after cleaning.

A few years back, an umpire showed up at a national with his ASA shirts adorned with a flag on each sleeve. He was local and was a little disturbed when I informed him that he could not work in those shirts. Turns out that every shirt in his closet had at least two flags on them. He had to borrow his son's (also an umpire) shirts.

I think that is another problem some people have. They have appropriated the adjective "uniform" as a noun.

Read above. This has already be clarified for you by others. :rolleyes:

I agree with you 1,000%.

MTD, Sr.

Conversely, perhaps they are perfectly aware of the criteria in the Flag code, and yet they decide that pride and patriotism outweighs the minor indiscretion. I personally find no fault in that.

Sort of like a player just making a quick jerk of a tag without the ball to try and make the runner slide. After all, it is only a minor violation and may save the game. Of maybe just not giving you

"Pride" and "Patriotism" are convenient references to justify a lot of things in today's world. They are often very loosely used by people to justify actions that are neither. I wonder how many would be proud enough to be a patriot if needed to serve in the military during wartime?

None of this really matters. It is a code and not a law punishable by anything.

Anytime someone is held accountable doing something to a flag, it ends up in the Supreme Court and the law is struck down as unconstitutional.

Backless. As if we weren't sexy enough already! :cool:

as do I

My $.02
I personally do find fault with that thinking.
I see it as showing a lack of respect for the very thing the Flag represents.
What kind of pride and patriotism is being shown by knowingly violating the wishes object of your pride and patriotism?

I find less fault with those who may display a flag improperly without knowing the code...


I would think that, knowing what the code has to say, if one wanted to display pride and patriotism they could fashion an emblem of red-white and blue. Maybe lie the banners that they hang from thhe stands during the World Series....

I have a problem with those that think it is OK to do the "wrong" thing purely because they know there is no punishment.

ditto, also me too. :(

Now I am more confused. Watching my Villanova team beat #17 Marquette, I noticed something about the ref "uniforms". Two of the officials had flag patches on their left sleeves, one with stars forward, one with stars backward. Huh ?? :confused: :confused:

Someone bought the wrong patch.

I've also seen college basketball crews where one of the officials had no patch, and where one had a white border around the flag and the other two had gold borders. So much for uniform.

Maybe I'm just in the minority, but I'm stunned how some people consider what is technically an improper display of the Flag for patriotism as a lack of respect.

It's not as if the Flag is displayed on the soles of players' and officials' shoes, or on the crotch of their pants. That, to me, is a lack of respect. It is also a lack of respect to display the Flag upside down, in a state of disrepair, or some other fashion that clearly says, "I know how it should look, but I'm making a statement because this country is screwed up!"

I wish everyone would abide by all laws and regulations, particularly those that clearly do physical, mental, and fiscal harm to others, as vehemently as some here feel about this issue. This country would be far better off.

Oh well, to each his/her own. There are way too many other things in today's society that I feel need to be addressed than this.

The appropriate way to wear the Flag patch on a uniform shirt is to have the field of stars closest to the heart. On the left sleeve or breast, the Flag would look "normal", and on the right sleeve or breast, it would look "backward".

I'm not sure which of us is in the minority - could be me.
I think we both agree that the ability to reasonably express a minority opinion is one of those things the Flag represents... :-)


No one (that I know of) is arguing that those things you mention are not displays of a lack of respect, too....

Funny thing - I have less of a problem with the upside down display, which is specifically referenced as a sign of distress by that same code, specifically BECAUSE that is spelled out in the code.

There we agree.

[/QUOTE]

True, but a discussion is a discussion and sometimes people like to express an opinion.
The unfortunate thing is that often when bringing about the disregard for the U.S. Code regarding "flags on uniforms", people are often accused of being unamerican or not "patriotic"...
I'm also the guy who gets eye rolls when noticing that the flag is on the wrong side when set up on a podium. ;)

I've given up on that since many don't know North from South, East from West or right from left.