ASA - Infield Fly Rule
 

ASA 14U. R1 on 2b, R2 on 1B. I'm PU. Batter hits this little strange bloop over the Pitcher's head. Pitcher made no effort, ball lands about 4 feet in front of 2B. All runners advance one base. No one said anything. BU calls "Time".
Comes jogging over to me and tells me he had called "IFF". Nobody,including myself heard him-so I guess that part is irrelevant-but when he told me he called it, I replied "Thats not your call-it's my call". I got the I've been doing baseball for a gazillion years spiel and either of us can make the call.
Since nobody heard him, there really was nothing to "fix", so after a discussion he went back to his position and away we went.

My question I have is IF someone had heard him, am I obligated to accept his calling of the IFF, or could I have overruled him and placed the runners where I believed they would have ended up?

First of all you can't overrule any umpire on judgement calls. If this had been a misinterpretation of the rule you could have gotten together and fixed it but you can't overrule another umpire on judgement calls.

Second, if he had said it loud enough to be heard, I would enforce the IFF. I don't have my books handy, but I don't believe the book says that only the PU can make this call. It can be called by any umpire on the field. However, most officials believe this should be called by the PU and I agree. It looks better coming from the PU. I as the BU will hold my hand up in the air pointing at the ball to indicate to the PU that we have a possible IFF. I then let him/her make the call. Yes, I know this is not a by the book mechanic, but it's what I do.

I had a similar situation this weekend during a college showcase. I am the PU. My partner is a quality umpire and part of my ASA association. We've been calling together for several years. Runners at 1st and 2nd (maybe bases loaded). Pop up on the infield over F6's head. My partner signals with his hand in the air as I would have done. I start to call it but then realize it is not a IFF because F6 had to keep going back for the ball. The ball kept sailing on her. It was not ordinary effort in my opinion and she did not catch the ball. Nobody heard me start to say Infield Fly, Batters Out. I never completed the sentence and put my hand down, as did my partner.

I should say, that if they heard me or saw me with my hand up then they never mentioned it when I didn't make the call.

Not in the book as do it, but as far as I know not in the book as do not.
Is that ok, or a big taboo?

If you are an umpire on the field and holding your fist (or point) up, you ARE indicating an infield fly.

Either do nothing or call it.....

It depends
 

There are some umpires who strongly dislike anything that is not an approved mechanic.

Chess - I think if anyone had heard your partner, you go with the IFF call. I agree that the PU should make the call, but either umpire can. There has been more than once where either my partner or I as PU has had a brain fart and not properly called the IFF, only to have it properly called by the BU.

I will also hold my hand up as the BU to indicate to my partner that it is a potential IFF and let them make the call. Nobody has ever told me that it is not acceptable. Often, the BU has a better look at the fly ball sooner to judge where the ball will come down. As the PU, the ball is flying straight away from you and it can sometimes be difficult to get the depth perception to determine if it will be a potential IFF.

Not true. If BU puts his hand up (especially on a borderline fly that may or may not be too deep to be easily caught), he's telling me he thinks the ball is going to be shallow enough to be easily caught. He's sharing information. He's not making a call.

While I agree it is the PU's call to make, I'm not going to turn away help from the BU as s/he has a better angle and perception than the PU (well, SHOULD have a better idea :D ).

Since I often work with less experienced umpires, it is not unusual for the PU to not make the IF call in a timely fashion and if it is a no-brainer, I will make the call from the bases. NOTE: "No brainer" means there is no question of ability for an IF to catch the ball or there is no question of ordinary effort.

As the PU, I will take a glance at my partner for a possible indicator if there is a question.

There's gonna be a storm if BU holds up his hand in what looks like an IF signal, Offense holds base due to the signal, PU doesn't make the call and multiple outs occur......

I'm trying to recall which clinic I was at [perhaps NFHS] where they told us the call belongs to the PU. The BU can raise his hand in a POINTING manner so as to indicate to the PU the possibility of the IF.

The question was brought up about coaches questioning this as calling the batter out, and we were instructed to tell the coach that it was not an out call but an assist to our partner that we have potential for IF.

I was looking up IF mechanics this past weekend and was looking for where it says the IF must be verbalized. About the only thing I found was in the description of an IF, and what happens when it's declared.

Must we call it, or is it optional like some of my partners believe? Again, perhaps because of cross-pollination of various affiliations, including NCAA.

Two Points.

1. Teams should know the situation and their responsibilities. They should not be looking at the BU to see if his hand is up. They should be listening for a verbal.

2. If the PU/BU did not make the IFF call and they should have, this is correctable in ASA and FED. I don't know about NCAA.

There are some softball umpire manuals that say the Infield Fly call can be made by either umpire.

There are others that don't spell out if the responsibility belongs to either one or both.

ASA's manual does happen to say that this is the plate umpire's call.

Did you mention to your partner that baseball is a different sport and that softball might have some different mechanics? :rolleyes:

What Page?
 

Do you have the page number where it says the PU has the call?

ASA 2012 Umpire Manual---page 244.

Maybe what you're stating is regional. The assumption your teams seem to be making is certainly not in play here. If IFF is not called VERBALLY by one of the umpires, then the offense should assume the judgement of the umpire(s) is that it's not an IFF. If it turns out the umpires simply failed to call it when they should have (and in THEIR judgement they should have), it's fixable.

Maybe - I'll ask around

I do agree with the BU pointing and I do that.

However, don't we use signals because everyone might not hear us; especially with all yelling at the fielders and 2 runners and a BR?

Out of curiosity, how often has the BU pointed and the PU not called the IFR (assuming the situation is correct).
Not trying to be argumentative, just curious.

Never too old to learn (and boy sometimes I feel old), but I always treated the IFR as any umpires call. Not only that, but somewhere along the line, I thought it was a call that was to be (or could be) echoed by other umpires (unlike a foul..;) )
I've never heard a post game comment when I called it as a BU.

It has happened to me twice in the last few months. In both cases, I was BU.

1. JC game, cold and very windy. IFF situation, high pop fly hit to F6, she takes a step or two backward, and catches the ball. Because of the high winds, I did hesitate before I pointed up. My PU partner did not call the IFF. After the catch, he loudly announces..."There is no such thing as ordinary effort today" referring to the windy conditions.

2. Men's FP, IFF situation, high pop fly hit toward F6. When the ball was hit, I saw F6 playing a bit deeper than normal and even though the ball would have landed past him, I judged that he only had to back up a bit to make the play, so I pointed upward. My PU partner did not call the IFF. We talk about it later...what I didn't see was that F6 misjudged the ball and basically did about two and half twists trying to find and get under the ball. He did end up catching it though.

In both cases, I was working with very good and very experienced partners.

Thoughts?

Couple of times a year, perhaps. BU, when pointing, is merely giving help on depth (it's often a LOT easier to see how deep the ball is going to be from B or C than from the plate). PU still has to decide if it should be caught with ordinary effort. I remember one that was to PITCHER that BU pointed up for me and I didn't call. Why? Because when I looked at pitcher I saw she had looked up, then back down with deer-in-the-headlights eyes and her hands apart as if to say, "Where did it go?" It landed untouched and everyone advanced rather easily (no, no one helped her or went after the ball as well).

1. I think that is a little silly. I, too, have experienced some nice Arizona wind blasts in my day. But what if the wind eases up in the later inninngs-does he now announce "ordinary effort" is in play today ?

2. Vaguely similar to what my opening thread was about, except I was the PU. BU in my game -who called IFF, very quietly, wanted me to honor his call. I didn't think I should....

Is there anywhere in the book or somewhere that says BU can also make that call? Because I only found the reference on page 244. PU has the respnsibility for call.

Is there anywhere that says BU can make the out call on a line drive to shortstop? No... but what do you do if he DOES make that call, and you see it differently?

I'd treat the OP the same way.

This relates to my situation #2 that I posted. It sounds as if this ball COULD HAVE BEEN caught with ordinary effort by an infielder.

Does the fact that she lost it in the sun or, in my play, F6 made it harder than it had to be, negate the fact that it could have been caught with ordinary effort? I realize that conditions like wind can have a definite effect on what is considered ordinary effort and that the skill level of the player is taken into account as well.

Yes, you take ability into account.

Also, I think there's a subtle difference between "could be caught" with ordinary effort and "should be caught"... - and it's the latter that we should go by.

How would you have handled this if the BU called the IFF, even though you didn't ?

Just honor his call and play on..or have a discussion with partner?

Have a discussion with partner, just like I would if we had a double call for whatever reason. Your decision to not call it is still a decision, even though there's no signal. He has out, you have safe. This is "officially" your call, but you still have to get together to discuss. And fix if necessary.

I have been instructed that if the sun gets in the fielder's eyes that is not a reason not to call IFR but to take into consideration if the wind is making it more difficult to catch with ordinary effort, you may not need to call it. Never exactly understood the reasoning since they are both weather related. I just still call it that way. Dave

You can do something about the sun in a fielder's eyes: shield eyes with glove or non-gloved hand, wear sunglasses, turn body so sun is not directly in eyes, etc. As a fielder, you can't do much to control the wind.

Pardon me for coming late to this party, but this comment struck me as odd. I've never heard this before. I always thought that the BU's pointing was just a signal to remind his/her PU partner that the fly ball may warrant an IFR call.

Frankly, depth has little to do with the IFR. A ball can be hit pretty far beyond the infield, but because the infielder was playing deep, the IFR is still in effect. And even if the infielder is playing a more natural position, she may still be able to get to the ball and catch it with ordinary effort if it's hit high enough. So I would expect my BU partner to put up his/her hand regardless if the ball is going to land inside or outside the dirt.

That said, I'm not really looking at my BU partner when the IFR situation is on and the batter hits a fly ball. I'm watching the fielders. So whether or not my BU partner is holding his/her hand up is immaterial to me.

Depth is not relative to the "dirt", but to the fielders.