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No
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I will give you two plays. One without obstruction and the same basic play with obstruction. Let's assume bases empty. A solid double to the outfield. The runner makes it safely to 2nd. The outfield throws to the cutoff and they run the ball in. Now assume the same play, this time with the runner obstructed between 1st and 2nd. The defense realizes they have a shot at getting the runner out makes a quick throw to second. However, the throw is errant. It sails over the covering defender at 2nd. The runner tries for third but is thrown out. The obstruction changed the entire play. Without obstruction the runner would never have made it to third. Also, without obstruction the defense would never have made that throw. You can't take subsequent actions into account because you don't know if those actions would have occurred. Make your determination at the time of the obstruction. |
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The current thinking at every level is to make an IMMEDIATE determination, and umpire the play, just like the coaches need to coach the play. Do not minimize the award; if you are sure it could be two, but MIGHT be three, think three, so as to not reward the defense for the misdeed. If the runner (without subsequent misplays by the defense) displays exceptional speed and running ability, you can consider to increase your initial determination during the play; after all, no one knows what you were thinking to begin with. But the initial determination needs to made at the time of the obstruction, not based on the result of any subsequent actions. Is it sometimes difficult? That's why we get paid the big bucks, they say. |
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I'm not arguing this and not intending to make this a baseball vs. softball thread -- I'm genuinely curious of the mentality of the head honchos in softball that force the umpire to make a guess at the time of the obstruction and why they think that's a more valid determination. Any thoughts? |
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There are too many factors, in my opinion, to use post-obstruction evidence. |
The obstruction ruling is based upon how the obstruction affected the runner on THAT PLAY at that point in time. It isn't that difficult a task if you know the game and have even the slightest idea of the competition level.
There have been enough TWP suggestions that would require the umpire to see the future and quite obviously, we cannot. Many umpires have a difficult enough time determining what should happen based on what they are watching, let alone the need to consider a multitude of "what if" scenarios when making a decision. |
The "steps lost" approach is used by many umpires, even if it is not taught. It is pretty easy and straightforward, which, I suppose, accounts for its popularity among umpires. One problem with it, in my view, is that it relies on the quality of the subsequent defensive play in making the determination. While the overthrow is used to justify using this approach, a great defensive play is rarely brought up. Great play can have the effect of "unprotecting" the runner with the "steps lost" approach.
What I've been taught is to make the judgement of the base you will be protecting the runner to at the time of the obstruction, taking into account where the runner is, and where the ball is, and where the runner likely would have gotten had she not been impeded with ordinary play from that point. While this judgment is not modified based on a later defensive play (such as, for example, the poor throw OR the great play example), you would take into account the defense muffing of the ball on the initial play on the batted ball (e.g. the ball rolls clear to the fence, since that is part of the original play) even if it happens after the obstruction itself. As Mike says, we cannot create an alternate universe where the obstruction did not happen, so it is all judgment, and it is your judgment to make. |
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I can live with the fact the sports are different. Tomato, tomahto. |
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I've seen players stop playing because an umpire verbalizes obstruction, runners and fielders alike. Remember, or at least in softball, OBS is not a punitive infraction, but one which attempts to undo the impedement. I have no problem determining a base to which the runner is protected at the time of the OBS. AFA the ball getting by the OF, that is not a subsequent play, but part of the play upon which you are ruling. We discussed this a few years ago and that was pretty much the consensus. When we are talking subsequent play, it is a reference to a throw getting away or being missed by a defender which would give the runner additional opportunity to advance that was not part of nor affected by the OBS. |
@Dakota
No, actually, I guess I can't either. Quote:
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You have to make an initial determination as to where you are protecting. If a play is later made on the obstructed runner you need to know if you are going to call her out or call dead ball and enforce the OBS.
Several examples have been already given which show why you would be wrong to determine the award only after all play ends; here is an extreme one. No runners, no outs. B1 gets a base hit thru the infield and rounds first. The ball is feilded by F7 and returned to the infield. B1 retreats toward 1B but trips over F3 several feet short of the bag. BU gives DDB signal. F6 seeing R1 down hurries a throw to F3 which goes wide. R1 gets up and runs to 2B and on toward 3B. F3 recovers the ball and throws to F5 who tags R1 inches off 3B. If you follow any of the "determine after the play' methods you could say that she lost several steps when she was going back to 1B so obvisouly she would have made 3B (she was tagged out by inches). However at the time of OBS the ball was being held by F6 and the runner was retreating to 1B after rounding the bag on a clear single. If I am BU, I am going to have determined at the time of OBS that without the OBS she is ending up safe at 1B. By rule (with exceptions) she cannot be put out between 1B and 2B and if she is I am going to kill the play and award 1B. If she gets put out beyond 1B we have an out! As you can see there is big difference between these two methods. |
This bears repeating. OBS is not meant to be a punitive call, but a corrective one. We are trying to "undo" the effect of the OBS.
Years ago there was in both NFHS baseball and softball an automatic minimum award of the next base.. a true penalty since that was a base that often a base the runner was not going to obtain. |
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