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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 11, 2012, 07:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
I think it was the 2010 season.

Here it is for the NCAA:

1.20 Bunt Attempt
Any nonswinging movement of the bat intended to tap the ball into play. Holding the bat in the strike zone is considered a bunt attempt. In order to take a pitch, thebat must be withdrawn pulled backward and away from the ball.
Thanks, Mike.. I hate this notebook I have. I have written 4-6 responses to posts and I touch something on the notebook and boom, the writing is gone.

Ron
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 11, 2012, 10:51pm
JEL JEL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoBits View Post
Most experienced baseball umpires accept that ties should not be called without question.
So what is the call when they do call a tie?

The runner will either be safe or out, so there is no tie.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 12, 2012, 01:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEL View Post
So what is the call when they do call a tie?

The runner will either be safe or out, so there is no tie.
I think Irish's point is this. Rule says defense must put the runner out prior to reaching the base. If you tie (happened at the same time) then the ball wasn't there before the runner so the defense did not put the runner out prior to them reaching the base, thus the safe call.

Now in the real world we all know there are no ties.....we get paid the $1,000 a game to determine which came first, safe or out!! After that we start in on the chicken and egg issue.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 12, 2012, 08:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED View Post
I think Irish's point is this. Rule says defense must put the runner out prior to reaching the base. If you tie (happened at the same time) then the ball wasn't there before the runner so the defense did not put the runner out prior to them reaching the base, thus the safe call.
Exactly. Just because the book doesn't acknowledge "Tie" as a valid ruling does not mean they do not exists in the real world. Yet the rule book may recognize such an event by clearly placing the onus on the defense to succeed in retiring the runner prior to reaching the base. Ergo, the defense's failure to do so defaults in a ruling of "safe".

Quote:
Now in the real world we all know there are no ties.....we get paid the $1,000 a game to determine which came first, safe or out!! After that we start in on the chicken and egg issue.
Was that sarcasm? Bazinga!
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 12, 2012, 09:08am
JEL JEL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED View Post
I think Irish's point is this. Rule says defense must put the runner out prior to reaching the base. If you tie (happened at the same time) then the ball wasn't there before the runner so the defense did not put the runner out prior to them reaching the base, thus the safe call.

Now in the real world we all know there are no ties.....we get paid the $1,000 a game to determine which came first, safe or out!! After that we start in on the chicken and egg issue.
Understood (and agree) but my point is if there were "ties" would would then be forced to also have "do-overs!"

And you are being underpaid at that rate!

Last edited by JEL; Sat May 12, 2012 at 09:09am. Reason: pour speeling
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 12, 2012, 09:26am
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Originally Posted by JEL View Post
Understood (and agree) but my point is if there were "ties" would would then be forced to also have "do-overs!"
Do you not......oh, never mind!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 12, 2012, 12:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoBits View Post
If one perceives action to be simultaneous, then you will definitely be wrong. You have a 50-50 chance of being correct the other way.
'I don't understand - why can not the action be perceived as simultaneous? I understand in actuality, it is extremely unlikely that you have a "tie", but .......

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoBits View Post
I see the application of this rule mostly debated amongst softball only umpires. Most experienced baseball umpires accept that ties should not be called without question.
So? This is a softball board, isn't it?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 12, 2012, 12:07pm
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Originally Posted by JEL View Post
Understood (and agree) but my point is if there were "ties" would would then be forced to also have "do-overs!"

And you are being underpaid at that rate!
No, you don't understand... If there was a "tie", buy rule you do not have an out.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 12, 2012, 02:25pm
JEL JEL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoTafurst View Post
No, you don't understand... If there was a "tie", buy rule you do not have an out.
I understand perfectly as I said four posts above!

I also understand there can be no tie called. Why look for tie's? Why worry about them?

By rule "It is the defense's responsibility to put the runner out, not for the runner to be the defense. Rules require the defense to put out the runner before they reach 1B" as in post #7

Rule mentions no tie, there is no need for a mention so why bother trying to see a tie!

The defense makes the out, or they don't.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 13, 2012, 10:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoTafurst View Post
'I don't understand - why can not the action be perceived as simultaneous? I understand in actuality, it is extremely unlikely that you have a "tie", but .......



So? This is a softball board, isn't it?
If you perceivea tie, your perception will be wrong. The ball or the runner got there first by at least a millionth (or billionth, or trillionth, etc.) of a second.

Yes, this is a softball board. Just making an observation. Not only are they games played two different ways, they are also officiated two different ways.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 13, 2012, 11:04am
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If I happen to perceive a tie, then I'm going have to judge it a tie. How do you expect to rule on something that is beyond the abilities of human perception? If you perceive a tie, but still rule that one event or the other happened first, then you are just guessing at the outcome.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 13, 2012, 11:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoBits View Post
If you perceivea tie, your perception will be wrong. The ball or the runner got there first by at least a millionth (or billionth, or trillionth, etc.) of a second.

Yes, this is a softball board. Just making an observation. Not only are they games played two different ways, they are also officiated two different ways.
Yet, MLB has the same rule, the runner or base must be touched BEFORE the runner reaches the base.

Rule 7.08
(e) He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been
forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 13, 2012, 01:09pm
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And to continue this idiotic discussion......

All we can rule on is what we perceive

1a : to attain awareness or understanding of
b : to regard as being such

2: to become aware of through the senses; especially : see, observe


if you perceive the ball hit the outside corner, it hit the outside corner..

(I will try to leave this my last comment on the subject)
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 13, 2012, 06:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan View Post
If I happen to perceive a tie, then I'm going have to judge it a tie...
What's the mechanic for that?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 13, 2012, 06:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
What's the mechanic for that?
shrug your shoulders and say tie goes to the rnner. everyone will agree.
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