ASA rules state that the batter becomes a runner when fewer than two outs and 1st base is unoccupied at the time of the pitch or two outs and 1st base is occupied. What deems "at the time of the pitch". Case in point; runner on 1B less than two outs takes off for second base upon pitchers' release of the ball, that pitch is a dropped third strike on the batter. Does the batter become a runner in that situation.

Nope. Don't confuse "Time of Pitch" with "when the pitch crossed the plate."

Time of the pitch, in most softball codes, would be the time that the pitcher separates her hands after holding the ball in both hands on the pitcher's plate in prepration of her pitch.

If the runner was not on base at that time, she would be guilty of a leaving too early violation.

Roger Greene

[Edited by Roger Greene on Jun 19th, 2003 at 11:13 AM]

Besides, don't try to parse the rules as if they were mystical holy writ passed down from ancient sages who wrote in a long lost middle eastern language (although, I admit, sometimes the syntax of the ASA book makes you wonder ;) )

Time of the pitch means the base the runner was on at the start of the play. Even if leadoffs were legal, it would be the same base, and for D3K purposes, the base would be occupied.

The batter cannot become a BATTER-RUNNER on a D3K if there was a runner on 1B prior to the start of THAT pitch with less than two outs.

Always consider the intent of the rule. If first base is occcupied when the pitcher pitches the ball, there can be no advancement by the batter on D3K. If the first base runner leaves 1B before the pitch, I have dead ball, no pitch, runner is out. That would be the only two scenarios that could happen, wouldn't it?

The phrase "or two outs and 1st base is occupied" is not complete, it should be "or two outs, regardless of whether 1st is occupied".

On a D3K, if there is no runner on 1st, the number of outs does not matter. If there is a runner on 1st and less than two outs, the batter cannot run on D3K.

Polly, you mentioned dead ball on dropped thrid strike, is that correct? Then no runners can advance?

PW60 said: "If the first base runner leaves 1B before the pitch, I have dead ball", nothing to do with D3K or anything else.

OK, now it's clear. For some reason I read that post wrong & didn't see the runner leaving early.