Hey guys... trust the season is going well. Had a play situation the other day I want you guys to ponder. I'm working the dish, and I always have, and always will have a tight zone. This coach had been chirping all game. I called a pitch a ball that his pitcher tossed and he didn't like it. He said" Oh c'mon Umpie, You're killing both teams out there".I turned, looked and realized this coach was standing amongst a group of fans and I believe this comment was intended to incitie a negative reaction from the crow. I at that point called time, removed my mask and informed him his night was over. My assignor, and prez both thought it was a great call.I hate it when people try and show me up like this.

Would you guys have done the same thing?

TR

No, I wouldn't have called a tight zone :)


Depending on the level of play, I call a nice wide zone. Keeps the hitters swinging, the game moving, and the coaches/fans quieter.

This is a very talented ladies leauge with a lot of players of college/university potential. i tend to have a wider zone with the younger kids, but these ones can hit the target.

TR

I know some will not receive this well, but....the strike zone is the strike zone and should be called as the strike zone.

The fact that NCAA, NFHS, ASA, USSSA, NSA, ISA, ISC, AFA, M-O-U-S-E!!! all give clinics which tell the umpire how they want the strike zone to be interpreted which, in some cases, does nothing more than cloud the issue, not only among the coaches, but the umpires! And the bad part is one year it is a car logo, the next a balloon and I wouldn't doubt we see a zepellin above the plate in the near future.http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/air...PlaneBlimp.gif

However you choose to call it, just don't move it around. Keep it simple and consistant.

JMHO,

Mike

Thank You Mike......And yes I would have tossed the coach :)

I probably would have warned him first. "That's enough coach, we are not going to discuss my strike zone today", then toss him if continues.

He was a three-time loser with one comment, so ejection was a good call without a warning...

Violation of ASA 4-9B

Violation of ASA 5-12

Violation of ASA 10-9A

I agree that consistancy is key, for sure.


Now, if you tell me that you're going to call the same strike zone for a beginning 10U game that you'd call in an advanced 18U game, I'll tell you that you're going to be in for a long night and a ton of crap from the coaches.

Now I don't give them anything high or low, but I do call pitches off the plate, especially if the catcher makes 'em look good.

Watch MLB long enough and you'll see an overhead view of a called strike that's 4 inches off the outside of the plate. You almost have to call that pitch if the catcher helps you out with it.

keep your strike zone consistent
 

I've heard rational umpires argue that there is, and should be, one strike zone for social play, another for tournament play; one for the kids, another for the grownups; one for the men, the women, and the co-eds; and so on. And if PU calls a strike zone differently than the players for that particular league/tournament/age group/gender expect, he/she is in for a tournament full of strife and hurt.

These are intelligent umpires, but on this point I think they're mistaken.

Like Mike says, the strike zone is defined and that should be it. I haven't got time to sort politics, player skill levels, the directly conflicting desires of both teams, and their many varied expectations through my calling filter; hell, I'm doing good to keep it consistent to my own standards.

It took me five years to get my slow-pitch strike zone consistent to the point I was comfortable and confident with it. During that time I acquired a rep for calling strikes on so-called "deep" pitches (those whose arc doesn't come down until behind the strike zone, and I know the purists will howl at me for using the forbidden term "deep"). It wasn't long in most games before my batters were all back in the catchers' box with me and using garden implements and bass fiddles instead of bats to reach up and try to smack the so-called 'strikes' sailing over their heads. And of course the pitchers, once they knew I'd let them get away with this out of my inexperience, lobbed high-arching mortar rounds the likes of which haven't been seen since the siege of Kosovo.

Well, everybody's gotta be a rook sometime, but in my more experienced years I may have gone the other way. My serviceable strike zone in social leagues gets criticized by these same mortar-lobbing pitchers during tournaments. They don't like to put a pitch where Crusher can hit it.

I don't care. Part of the game for a pitcher is finding out how to pitch the game that will get the best calls and adapting to the umpire's style. We've had fun here in my city having switched from ASA to NSA and taken two feet off the max arc height for pitches. Many of the local hurlers unduly smitten with their own so-called superior technique were already pitching too high even by ASA standards. It tickles me when they don't get why their 13-foot-arc pitches are balls even when they plunk perfectly down an inch behind the point of the plate. (In NSA, we don't have to say "illegal", don't have to hold the left fist out, and don't even have to say why the pitch is a ball unless they ask.)

And, the heck with catchers pulling a ball into the zone; when I see this I call a ball automatically. (Moose wouldn't have to pull it in unless it was out to begin with.) No umpire I know who's been calling for more than two weeks is taken in by this corrupt little catchers' game.

One exception to my unchanging strike zone: In social situations only, when a team is holding back on an inexperienced or less-skilled pitcher to draw walks, I will give the pitcher an unearned strike now and then on a near miss, just to get the bats swinging. It's embarrassing and unenjoyable for players to trot around the bases while some poor pitcher dies of embarrassment in the middle of the carousel.

But there are 100 ways to feel. Evolve a philosophy that works for you and be consistent in its application.

Strike Zone
 

I just have to throw this out there, but what do you think the reaction would be in a good NCAA game if you were to call the pitch that just catches the armpits a strike? The rulebook says it's a strike, but with a 12" ball the pitch that just catches the armpits is also going to be catching part of the chin on most of the batters.

Re: Strike Zone
 

I believe the NCAA wants the entire ball below that line to be included in the strike zone, therefore no balls at the chin will be strikes.

I think I would have had to toss him. I don't want anybody calling me an "Umpie" ever! ;) (Though I have been called worse!) :rolleyes:

I doubt whether the two sides will ever reconcile this issue, but to me, the strike zone does change with the level of play.

I believe that in high-level FP, a pitch can be completely below the armpits and still be a ball, <i>because everybody on both teams expects it to be called a ball.</i> The book zone high is too high, just as in MLB, even with the recent change. I just saw Juan Gonzalez called out on a pitch not two inches above the belt. Gonzalez argued, and the announcers thought it was a bad call. But when they saw the replay, they figured that with the new "higher" zone, it was a good call. This supposed borderline pitch "new" strike was <i>several inches</i> below what the book says is a strike.

When a slower pitch in a rec league makes it under the armpits, it's a strike. I don't know a coach that doesn't expect, for kids, a larger zone than for professionals.

Does anybody really call a MLB strike zone in LL? I don't do LL, but in every game I've ever seen, the ump stretches the zone low.

Strike Zone elementary question
 

As a coach I say the strike zone is the strike zone is the strike zone and I have had this discussion before.

Who is any umpire to change the rules on a pitcher who practice throwing the strike zone 500 to 1000 times a week.

You might be slightly more liberal with younger players, meaning give them the close ones especially if they are ahead of the count and don't appear to have any intention of swinging. Some of the umpires who say "I have a small Zone" kill me.

What does that mean. Anybody who says they have a tight zone explain to me what that means. Does it mean 2 inches above the knees rather than above the knees. Does it mean 4 inches below the armpit and 2 inches on the inside of the plate.

What is your tight or small zone, and then defend it with a rule! They say coaches can be jerks, but aren't umpires setting themselves up by calling a "tight zone" and making parents and coaches on both teams upset.

Quite frankly, coach, I have had much more agitated coaches and fans because I call the "book" zone than other umpires who call a more compact zone seem to have. It seems no actual coach on the field wants the high strike called against <u>his</u> batters.

Think about it... would you complain if you see the pitch come in clearly at your batter's chin called a strike? Probably you would (even if you didn't voice the complaint, you would think it), yet that same pitch probably was also hitting the arm pits for the young ones, especially if the pitch has a bit of an arc. Even more so if your batter is forward in the box.

Some weeks ago I had a coach who was very much like this. He had been a real prick the whole weekend and I got him in the semi-finals of the losers bracket.

Three pitches into the game he's already crying about the zone. I just gave him the stare (you know the one you try to copy from your wife when she's upset with you).

Didn't work. Couple batters later, and his starting pitcher is getting pounded, he just starts getting irate about me not calling the outside pitches, claiming "She has a good breaking curve." She was breaking two feet before the plate and curving 8 inches outside.

So he finally says the one word I hate. "Homer". I call time, walk over to the dugout, and through the fence I have a firm conversation with him. Very much like this:

Me: Coach. I strongly recommend you find your composure and conduct yourself in a more professional manner. You will adress me as Sir or Blue. Do you understand?

Coach: I have never seen such..

Me: Coach. I am not looking for your opinion here. Do you understand my first question?

Coach: Give any guy a shirt...

Me: COACH! I asked you a question. Are you ging to answer it or just sit here and display this immature acts that you can clearly see are not impressing anyone?

COACH: I understand.

Me: Good. Now, I want you to gather up your things and leave and if you say one word or make a scene I will forfiet this game. Do you understand me?

Coach: Yes.

And he left.

Coach, I'd be irate if I didn't just feel sorry for you. Honestly, how long have you been coaching? My advice for you, sir, is to understand that the umpire will call the zone the way they call the zone, and that's the way it is going to be. Until they bring QuesTec into Little League I plan on calling the zone the way I always do - first consult league rules, then governing rules, then realistic age of players.

Balls and strikes are just one of many calls you DON'T get to argue. That's why they are called judgement calls.

--What is your tight or small zone, and then defend it with a rule! They say coaches can be jerks, but aren't umpires setting themselves up by calling a "tight zone" and making parents and coaches on both teams upset.--

Once, a minor league umpire called a perfect pitch a ball. When asked why, his response was ''that's the way I called it.'' Umpire's calls are a part of the game, and if you don't like it, switch to video games. That's the only time you'll find the umpire you want. And quite frankly, I think you'd argue with them too.

No-one likes having a strike called that they didn't think was a strike, but it's part of the game. And until you put on a blue shirt and work our side of the line, you're not going to understand it. Sorry.

[Edited by IHSAIllini on Jun 27th, 2003 at 12:20 PM]

Couple of comments on my way of handling such situations...

First, I won't have a discussion through the fence in front of this team. I will invite the coach out onto the field for a private discussion.

Second, the question I have asked coaches who complain about ball is strikes is a simple on, "Coach, are you aware that arguing balls and strikes is against the rules?"

Similarly, if the coach is making disparaging remarks about me I will ask, "Coach are you aware that making disparaging remarks about game officials is against the rules?"

After the coach answers "Yes," I am done unless or until he does it again. If the coach continues to argue / make remarks instead of answering yes or no, he is gone.

Finally, I won't threaten consequences if the coach doesn't leave quietly; I'll just inform him to leave quietly. If he doesn't, then I invite the assistant coach out for a discussion where I ask him, "Coach, are you aware that if your head coach does not leave quietly within 1 minute the game is subject to forfeit?"

While this may take a little longer, I like it because it gives the coach ample opportunity to keep himself in the game and/or to keep the game from being forfeited, it does not show up the coach in front of his players, and it does not put me in a position of no flexibility because of a threat I have made.

The way the book describes a strike zone is a square. The way I see it it's an oval. I don't bring the bottom up, I do bring the top down a bit, and I widen the sides out.

Strike Zone elementary question
 

Not sure I understand your question. I would not understand why you would call a pitch at someones chin. I think what you are saying is that if the person is 2 feet forward in the box, that the pitch is actually a strike over the plate.

If it were possible, which in some situations it is, I wouldn't complain.

The only umpires that drove me crazy this year were the ones that believed anything more than 6 inches below the belt and six inches above was a strike, and if the cather moved her glove at all it must have been outside or inside.

I WILL MAKE A POINT OF SAYING RIGHT NOW THOUGH. WE HAD SOME GOOD UMPIRES FOR A CHANGE THIS YEAR. We only had one really young one, and they were all friendly to the kids.

Only problem we had was with one who forgot his chest protector and refused to get behind the plate. The field manager made him (not at our request), but he took it out on us. All the rest (over 10 games) were awesome.

I can't tell you the impact that had on parents, kids and coaches. A good blue makes everybody happy.

Re: Strike Zone elementary question
 

That, and the ball is ~4" in diameter (a little less for 10U), and with the small ones in their hitting stance, there is less than 4" vertically from their chin to their arm pits, and if any part of the ball is in the zone anywhere over the plate, it is a strike.

A lot of fans (fewer coaches) view it the opposite - if any part of the ball is outside the zone while in front of the batter, is cannot be a strike.

Ironic... we had a thread on this site a few weeks ago regarding the "macho" approach of not wearing all protective equipment. If I remember right, you have a 10U team. It is not uncommon at all for umpires around here to leave their chest protector in their bag when calling 10U. Personally, I think they're nuts...

IHSAIllini

feel sorry for me? Why because I questioned you. We aren't on the field now, so take the time and explain yourself.

What is the rule on the strike zone. What do I tell my kid who is pitching by the rule book but you refuse to call it. What do I tell my 10 year old daughter who pitches one down the gut at the belt and he misses it.

I tell you what I tell her. There is nothing I can do for you Honey, keep pitching, you can't argue the call it's a judgement call on for the umpire.

Then I look at my assistant coach and say good grief he is killing us, unless he is calling it both ways then I say well at least he is consistent. In many cases it benefits me when you do call it tight, because she outpitches most of the teams in her league and my hitters aren't so good.

OK, I have to deal with it, but you didn't answer the question. ASA rules, what is the strike zone. I don't care if they are 10 or 20, if they are 4 feet tall or 6 feet tall.

The answer is, it is the same rule for everyone. How can you quote the rule book all day long and then call this one a judgement call, the strike zone is spelled out. I am not talking about the close calls, that could go either way. I am talking about intentionally, knowingly, braggedly changing the strike zone.

Telling others, I have a quote "small strike zone"

PS.. Again you don't have to feel sorry for me, this isn't my life. Lighten up, lift the chip from your shoulder, I am not questioning your ability, only your application of the rule.

It's somewhat ironic, because I never said what the zone I called was. I call one of the widest zones in the league, because I've grown tired of calling walk after walk.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder, sir, I'm just sick of hearing those complain who have never put on the blue shirt.

You keep pointing back to the rule book. Well, yes, there is a specific rule. Of coures, I might add that my games are under FED and not ASA, but that's just splitting hairs at this point. All I can tell you is that umpire judgement supersedes the rule book. And no, it is not a written rule. It is simply practical game manangement.

If you feel you're being slighted, it's understandable. Someone will be unhappy, usually the one on the worse end of the call...but oh well. A lot of things in life don't go exactly by the book, and if you don't believe me, try watching MLB one of these days.

Strike Zone
 

I am really only talking about umpires who, and there have been some on here, indicate they call a smaller than the rules strike zone on purpose, and then wear it like a badge of honor.

I am seldom dissatisfied with the calls, as I realize it is impossible to be perfect.

Re: Strike Zone
 

Just out of curiousity, why do you think anyone would call a smaller strike zone? An umpire who shrinks the strike zone is an idiot.

I get tired of hearing about how an umpire "squeezes" pitchers. It's not like we are on the clock and getting paid more the longer the game lasts. Games are long enough as it is without making the pitcher put the ball on a dime.

Did any of these coaches actually ever think that maybe their pitcher just isn't hitting the strike zone? Or do I once again have to hear about how little Suzie NEVER walks anyone, has perfect control of her 70 mph riser on her way to striking out 20 batters a game. And that is at the age of 12!

Overly sarcastic? Yep, but you wouldn't believe how often umpires hear this type of stuff.

I can buy the point that maybe an umpire just doesn't have a good strike zone or that s/he lost it for a batter or two (it happens!). But an umpire who intentionally shrinks their strike zone for any reason, needs to find a new sport.

A coach who believes that called balls are the umpires fault should go with them.

Well Said Mike....I wish I had your way with words.

Re: Re: Strike Zone
 

Mike,

Yes Sirre Bob, Uh Mike - http://www.mansun-nl.com/smilies/hump.gif

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/clap.gif Bravo

Great rebuttal.

glen

Concur. There is no valid reason to prolong a game by calling the 'tight zone.'

STRIKE ZONE
 

What heck are you talking about. Last time I checked every game I played in had a time limit. Walking in 20 runs doesn't take anymore time than 6 innings.

We didn't have a game go 6 innings all year long, even when we had 2 strong pitchers.

So that arguement doesn't hold water. I went to a 12 and under state tourny and watched 2 games. Didn't see any games go 6 either.

Nice try....

Why would an umpire do it, I don't know? Most don't in fact, but there are some that do. I know at least one.

I'm not attacking all of you, and I don't expect the one's who do have a small zone to change, only recognize they are not following the rules

Re: STRIKE ZONE
 

Not all games have a time limit though. HS Varsity games go 7 innings, whether that takes 3 hours or 1 hour. So, in that context it makes a lot of sense. Also, Dixie tournaments go a certain number of innings depending on the age group involved, so once again it would make sense in that context. However, what Mike was trying to indicate was that no one benefits from a "decreased" strike zone, least of all the umpire who is allegedly shrinking it.

Your right! No advantage. Does that change the fact, that it happens.

I will use that as an arguement next time I see the one who professes he calls it though. I am not just saying this as an opinion. He told someone this, who in defending him said "he told me he has a small strike zone."

Then all I can say is that this guy who said this must have been "unseasoned." (Translation, a rookie or a near rookie.)

strike zone
 

He is young, but coaches have heard this before. The I call a tight zone phrase. This isn't the first time, and I have heard it in other conversations on similar boards.

Ultimately my arguement is that the strike zone is according to the rules and those who interpret as their own strike zone should be flogged....lol.

I've read lots of coaches complaining about a tight zone (mostly on eteamz coach's board), but I've never actually met an umpire who admits to it.

I'm sure it happens, but ...

Anyway, as to the time issue, even with a time limit, a walk-a-thon can <u>seem</u> a lot longer. Not only that, unless you have a drop dead clock, that last inning can go on and on and on (even with a per inning run limit - it takes quite awhile to walk in five runs!).

Even umpires like to enjoy the game!

LAST INNING
 

The last inning is a whole other issue.

Let's talk about how the strike zone then is toes to noes.

Is that right? I have seen that more often then the tight zone.

CoachTindell

Sorry for joining this discussion a little late,but I must ask.What level ball are we talking about here that you coach?? Is it 12U or 10U?? If it is,you have got to be kidding me!!! At that age group,all you should be stressing to these young children are 1)Fundementals 2)Teamwork 3)Sportsmanship 4)and most of all having FUN!!! The umpires calls or perhaps YOUR desire to win should not be part of the equation.
While the rule book does define the strike zone,it is however subjective to the level of ball being played.I umpire Div 3 College,High School,ASA Womens Major,as well as all ages of the ASA youth program.If I called the "book strike zone"in Div 3 or HS Varsity in my area,I would be run out of there.We call nothing higher than a balls' width above the belt for the upper end of the zone,and nothing below the top of the knee.If I called that zone in a 12U game,I would be in for a very long night.There is no time limit on games here unless it is in tournament play.I set my strike zone to the level of play I am umpiring.In the 12U or 10U,I will call the full zone and then some realizing the difficulty pitchers at that age have at consistantly pitching in the zone.I try to make the game a little more enjoyable for the children at that age.Notice,I didnt say more enjoyable for the COACH.I explain in no uncertain terms to the coaches in these youth games at the pre game that I expect not to hear a word from them on judgement calls or they will spend their night in the parking lot.I believe sportmanship must be upheld at all costs,and yes even above winning, in these younger levels so the children learn respect for their opponents,the game, as well as the umpires.


Jeff
NCAA certified
NFHS certified
ASA certified

Strike Zone
 

Actually 10U rec league, so my purpose was fun. My arguement really isn't relevent to play. The arguement is regarding the rules.

Where do you stop in your intent to make the game more fun for the kids. Is it OK if they lead of a 1/2 second early from any base? This is a judgement call right.

What if a team is down 10 to nothing, and there is a close play at first do you give the out to the team that is behind, because after all it is a judgement call.

What if a team is absolutely slottering another team and the losing team interferes with a runner (obstruction) doesn't slow her much and she gets out at a close call to the next base. The obstruction is a judgement call.

Where do you stop the judgement calls in an effort to make the game more enjoyable.

I am scared to think of the conversation this is going to initiate, but I just have to ask what gives you the right to call it different than the rule book.

Yes, my daughter plays 10U, but I have to say winning is more fun than losing to her. She pitches 6-7 days a week in order to pitch to spots, does she deserve the strike zone to be called right or does the other pitcher who doesn't work as hard as her deserve a break in order to make the game more fun?

Coachtindell

I took time to read again all your posts on this subject,but I am still confused what you are looking for.Since you stated your 10 year old pitcher is quite proficient at hitting her spots,I think your team would actually benifit from an umpires smaller strike zone.Fortunately,I dont have to do many 10U games,but the ones I have,the pitchers are all over the place.Pitches in the dirt hitting my feet,others flying over my head into the backstop.Since your pitcher can hit a smaller target,I dont understand why you would want a larger zone.
Believe it or not,it is actually more difficult trying to call a good consistant zone at the younger levels because the pitchers are very inconsistant at hitting their target.A ball popping into the mitt at 60+ MPH at or around the intended target allows the umpire to get in a good rhythm behind the plate.An umpire cant get into that kind of rhythm in a lower level youth game.I think you were missing the point when you elaborated on other judgement calls in a game.All I was saying is by stretching the zone to the limits of the strike zone in 10U games like calling the full knee and calling the armpit strike leads to more batters swinging and not a walk fest.It is just a common sense,practical approach to make the game a bit more enjoyable for the children.After all,isnt that what we are BOTH out there for!

Jeff
NCAA Certified
NFHS Certified
ASA Certified

Stike Zone
 

it's really not a question regarding my daughter. It is more of a phylisophical question.

It is not a question regarding my daughter, but more what justifies tightening or widening.

How does someone decide to be different than the rule book, and based on the post prior to yours, how do you decide which rules to be more liberal with in your judgement.

There is only one strike zone in each rule book.

Coachtindell

Although you have yet to answer my questions,I will attempt to make you understand my point.While defined in the rule book,an umpire has his "own" zone which they call within those rules.We are able to stretch a zone in lower levels to its limits and tighten that zone in a college game.Have you ever watched a Major League Baseball Game? If a pitch is called a strike above the belt,who do you think goes crazy? The coach in the dugout of course! That is the accepted height in that level of ball which of course is not the rule book strike zone.I think you are dwelling far too much on the umpire during your games.As a high school catcher,I was taught to respect the men in blue and have my pitcher pitch to THEIR zone.After a half inning I would have a pretty good idea where his zone was.As a youth baseball coach,I employed that same philosiphy.I taught my kids that an umpire does not determine the outcome of a game,they do!Unless everyone on the team played an errorless game in the field,batted 3 for 3,threw every pitch to their intended target,and ran the bases perfectly,then and only then might an umpires call affect the outcome of the game.Hopefully all coaches would preach that,but that is another story in sportsmanship.

Jeff
NCAA Certified
NFHS Certified
ASA Certified

Strike Zone
 

You are the one who hasn't answered the question and the arguements used are not logical. There has been an arguement in baseball for several years now regarding the strike zone and that the tightening of it is contributing to the increase in homeruns.

It is umpires who have set the standard and continue to do so. I don't spend all my time focusing on this issue. I actually find it an interesting arguement and is why I discuss it in here.

If I honestly thought saying or argueing it during a game would make a difference I would, but I don't so unless it gets obsene, such as an umpire calling a really small zone against 10 year olds, then I usually leave it alone.

A tight strike zone takes the advantage away from the pitcher and benefits hitters, an enlarged strike zone does just the opposite. By calling it either way you are helping one or the other.

I argue that you should call it by the rules, regardless of the level and force the player to do the work.

This is sort of like lowering acedemic standards so everyone can get an A. As a coach, I'm not asking you to make it larger or smaller. Only call it by the book.

If my pitcher can't get it in the "real" strike zone and the batter wants to stand with the bat on her shoulder then let her walk.

She's not asking for charity!


No one has answered my question that I have asked all along, and there is really no need to move on until you do.

What gives any umpire the right to call a strike zone or any other rule of judgement different than the rule book?

Isn't that why we have a rule book? Otherwise why don't we let you make up the rules to even the field for both teams anytime you want.

So far many of you have admitted you break the rules, and have given reasons why you do it, but you haven't stated what gives you the right. Although I assume your answer has been given. That answer is you can do it because you are the Umpire!


Sort of like Clinton saying I can break the rules because I am President! ????????


[Edited by Coachtindell on Jul 5th, 2003 at 11:17 AM]

Let's not get into that, especially with such an ugly comparison.
Also, there are 2 issues:
1) trying to use the rule strike zone, but seeing a pitch differently because we are all human
2) deliberately altering the zone for a purpose, either altruistic or devious
We will always have the first, and I guess the second. When the second is for altruistic intent as expressed in this thread, that is understandable but incorrect. When the purpose is devious, that is unacceptable. Devious includes revenge, deliberately shortening a game, showing up a coach, etc.

Coachtindell

I can see a rational discussion is going no where with you.Trust me,if you were to walk onto the field to discuss ball and strikes in my game,you would be writing yourself a very prompt trip to the parking lot.But since you are a professed expert on the rule book,you then already know that questioning ball and strikes calls for an immediate ejection.
I am going to try to simplify my explanation in an effort that maybe I can open your eyes a little bit.I still dont believe I am spending all this time trying to make a 10U coach understand.This level is pure and simple a development level.Are your girls all distressed over a strike zone or are they still having fun??
Youth officiating(all sports)have always been a little more lax in the application of the rule book at the lower levels.In football and basketball,every single infraction is not called at the beginning levels and are more closely called as they progress.This is not infringing on the rules,but a common sense approach to officiating youth sports.I have no idea why an umpire would call a tight zone in a 10U game.That makes no sense to me at all.As umpires(good ones)we are not making up rules as we go.We are "adjusting" to suit the level of play.I really think you should take a crack at umpiring to get a proper perspective.Heck the test should be a breeze since you are already an authority on the rules.Then stand out there and see if your "perfect rule book strike zone"is acceptable in all your games regardless of the level of play.
By the way,in High School and College ball,it is not us, the umpires who define the zone,it is the coaches.If I would call the "rule book"strike zone in a Div 3 game,I can guarantee,I would be blackballed from doing their games in the future.Same goes with the High School teams in my area.
I have never gotten anything less than a cordial handshake and thank-yous from coaches of the 12U and 10U games complimenting me for the consistancy of my strike zone and my professionalism.After 15 years of umpiring,I take great pride in my umpiring and wouldnt even think of doing anything to harm the game.I firmly believe in my approach of applying the rules as do the coaches I umpire for.
When I was the UIC for our local youth league,we implemented a rule requiring all coaches to umpire 2 games in a season.We ran a pre season clinic and then paired the coaches with a seasoned umpire.What an eye opener that was!!!You would not believe how drastically that increased the sportsmanship of the coaches,Try a little umpiring coach,and let us all know how well you did.

Jeff
NCAA Certified
NFHS Certified
ASA Certified

StIke Zone
 

MO

For some reason you think I am upset with you and all umpires collectively. I am not.

Did my girls have fun, YES! We had a blast. They learned a lot and the parents have begged me to return.

We played ball, but we also played. Went to Regionals and watch Texas play, we had swim parties, sleep overs, etc.

We also had fun on the field. We celebrated all season, because as you well know it is the responsibility of the coach to make it fun at this level.

I'm asking out of curiosity. I had one "bad" umpire all year.

I'm just curious, and your right all coaches should have to umpire. I couldn't agree more, and when my girls are older and I don't have to coach anymore, I plan on doing just that.

I never said I was an expert at the rules. It doesn't take an expert to know the strike zone. I look to this board and eteamz on a regular basis in order get advice from some of the best and most dedicated umpires there are.

I appreciate the time and effort you have put into trying to explain. I understand you don't want kids to stand there with a bat on their shoulder, I understand you don't support shrinking strike zones at a lower level.

I don't support shrinking strike zones period. If you think about it if you force a smaller zones you give advantage to the hitters.

Done with this conversation as I am sure you are also. Thanks again.

Without getting really technical about things, I have the following philosophy..especially when it comes to youth softball:

Those who need a little bit of help..get it...those who DON'T do not get it...or in other words,if in a youth league we do, in the 10-12 yr old grouping, I have a kid who shows real signs of being able to PITCH, I will call a nice 'book' zone: being tight on the corners and such; however if the kid is barely getting the ball to the plate....that zone EXPANDS....[which the league wants us to do anyways..they want their kids to swing those bats!]. I have seen in that league 11 yr old kids with LIVE arms..so much so that its hard to find kids to catch them! One kid they 'promoted' out of the age grouping she has such an explosive arm-she was the #1 JV pitcher in the school [a good solid program BTW] at age 13 last year...

No problem coach,I always welcome a good discussion.Basically my point of view from my experience is I call a strike zone which is acceptable with the level of play I am umpiring.I agree with you that the shrinking of the zone at the younger levels is totally unacceptable.
I am also glad to hear that you seem to put in a lot of time and effort into your coaching to give the girls a pleasurable experience.Like I said before,that is what both coaches and umpires should be in it for.I look foward to future discussions with you.Dont hesitate to ask questions or start a new subject.


Jeff
NCAA Certified
NFHS Certified
ASA Certified