Heard this one from another umpire.

His partner (plate umpire) calls an illegal pitch for the pitcher ending the pitch with her pivot foot outside of the 24 inch plate.

As I can see how that would be physically possible, I cannot find any rule that backs up that type of ruling. If the non-pivot foot is outside the 24 inch plate, it is a clear illegal pitch but what about the pivot foot.

Anyone else ever call this or see this?

BTW, this call ended up with 2 coaches ejected and 3 fans ejected.

If you stretch the rule enough, "dragging or pushing off from the plate" in conjunction with the non-pivot step "must be forward" implies the pivot must also move forward and as it has to start on the plate, forward would be in front of the plate.

What am I bid?

And then again, there is 10-1.

In NFHS, yes, this is a rule. Rule 6:2:c states:

"The pivot foot main remain in contact with or may push off and drag away from the pitching plate prior to the front foot touching the ground, as long as the pivot foot remains in contact with the ground and within the 24 inch length. Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal."

As for the non-pivot foot, Rule 6:2:b:NOTE covers that, stating, "Towards(this is in regard to the step forward or backward with the non-pivot foot) is interpreted as within or partially within the 24-inch length of the pitcher's plate."

Penalty for both: Illegal pitch.

And yes, I have called this many times.

"And yes, I have called this many times."

Being Texas, I guess they need a bigger pitcher's plate.:)

Speaking ASA...

ASA is considerably less clear on this than is NFHS, but even so, you said,Once the ball is released, the pitcher can put her feet any darn place she likes. I'm visualizing the ball is leaving her hand as she is bringing her pivot foot wide of the 24 inch plate.

Given the severity of the illegal pitch penalty (with runners on base, anyway), unless this was clearly in advance of the ball being released, it seems like a pretty picky call to me, especially if this was ASA.

D'oh!

I just noticed that the topic title of this thread is "ASA Pitching Violation." So...disregard my previous answer which was based on NFHS. I reckon I need to start reading those darn thread titles!

I see no reason to disregard your response, especially because you identified it as NFHS. I will definitely apply it during NFHS games and I think comparing different rule sets is educational for all.

"calls an illegal pitch for the pitcher ending the pitch with her pivot foot outside of the 24 inch plate."

I am curious to know what specific action caused this call. A pitcher's pivot foot travels all over the place (including hopping or leaping, but we won't go there today). When the hips open the pivot foot drags behind the body. That's why you see the "glully" dug at about a 45 deg angle from the plate. When the hips close after the release, the pivot foot picks up and replants to the side.

If the stride foot is landing right on the edge of the 24" zone, then it is possible the toe of the pivot foot may be dragging beyond the 24" line. Technically that would be illegal, but I sure wouldn't call it.

If the stride foot is landing anywhere from the center to the far edge of the 24" zone then the pivot foot will pick up and replant outside the 24" line. But so what? The ball is gone by then. Legal.

WMB

That was my point, too, WMB. Once the ball is released, the pitch is over wrt pitching motion. The pitcher can do anything she wants at that point.

According to the umpire who told me this situtation, the pitcher said this happens only when she throws her screw ball.

Just wondering:

As the PU, if I'm concentrating on where her non-pivot foot lands AFTER the release of the ball, will I be able to pick up the pitch in time to determine ball or strike? It seems to me that what I should be looking for is that the step is forward and toward the batter (ASA Rule 6, Section 3G). After the release, my priority is now the pitched ball.

Can't see how BU could help me out with this one, since they are out of position to see the position of the feet landing AFTER the pitch.

Again, just wondering.

HMMM......

[Edited by VaASAump on Jun 23rd, 2003 at 09:49 AM]

To be able to call it, it really has to be blatant. It is usually something that you notice when the pitcher is doing her warm-ups. What I will try to do is get the coach and pitcher to correct it before a pitch is ever delivered. However, once the game is in progress, you can pick up the slide outside the lane if she is sliding a good 8" or more, even while focusing on the pitch coming in. It is possible, but like I said, only if it is blatant.

Got 5 at once, huh? He reached his quota for the season!!

LOL

(just a little humor, folks!)