Time to summer vent. Here are some of the Moronic on field questions and situations I have seen so far this summer. Please feel free to add your own.

Pet Peeves:
* Coaches who come to the pre-game without a lineup card
when it is their first game of the day and they have
been sitting around for an hour.
* Coaches who tell me what the other umpires allowed the
last game. (buckets on the field, courtesy runners for
anyone, etc...) My response, No, No, and No.
* Parents and fans who do not have a clue on some of the
simple rules of the game. I feel like I have to give
an on field clinic to explain infield fly or caught
foul tip by the catcher, etc.... just to get them to
shut up.
Moronic Questions
* This one from last weekend. Coach - "Blue you called
a strike on my batter that she swung, can you ask your
partner for some help."
* Runner on 3rd, bunt ball. Play goes to first and then
back to home. First baseman pulls foot. Partner calls
BR out at first. Coach asks my partner for appeal. I
discuss with him and he changes call to safe. Defensive
coach comes unglued on me. "Blue how can you see that
play when you are supposed to be watching the play at
home." Response - "Coach, I thought I was supposed to
be watching the ball to make the right call at home.
I did that, and your first baseman was off the bag."

Or, "coach, there wasn't any play at home during the play at first".

One of my biggest pet peeves is also "the other umpire(s) let us .....", partly because if I don't know whether to believe them or not.

C_One,

I know that I dont have to say this to you, but for the rookies lurking out there: <b>It doesn't matter if you believe them or not; if they're doing something wrong, Dont Let Them Do It!</b> Just say "That was then, this in now, Cosah. Now let's play ball."

SamC

<b>Good point! </b>

For those who might not be aware, my comment was about umpires that don't know or ignore rules and make life difficult for everyone.

My wife and I had a shot down the 3rd base line that bounce behind the temp fence in the outfield into a dead ball area....She was chasing the ball(3 person crew) as it could have been fair/foul ect....When it went behind the fence the outfielder threw her hands up and my wife killed the play by yelling dead ball.....No Problem.

I stop the runner who was rounding 2nd and pointed for her to return to 2nd base...At which point in time the 1st base coach comes unglued....."NO BLUE....She Gets 3rd base...When the ball went dead she was at 2nd base". I was dumbfounded since this coach had not given us any problems during the tournament....Said no coach ground rule double. She stays at 2nd. "No Blue you are wrong.". Now I'm pissed....."NO COACH.....BOOK RULE GROUND RULE DOUBLE!!! GET BACK IN YOUR BOX".

Just then another assistant yells...."The umpire is right...Don't mess with him".

The coach apologized after the inning saying he just got excited in the heat of the moment....Yeah right. :)

In case anyone missed this last week:

BTW, Kellers: Do you ever get into the credibility problems of female umpires or "they can't disagree, they're married"?

I have been reading this board for a while and have gained a new level of respect for umpires. I am a coach and I try very hard to learn and play by the rules of the game, as most of us do.
I have, on some occasions, questioned calls that I thought were wrong. I also see coaches and fans who are clueless and need to just shutup.
However, I sense in your message a condescending tone toward coaches in general. I coach a rec league because I enjoy the game and I enjoy teaching the game. I owe it to my team to question a call if and when I feel it was wrong. That's part of my job as a coach and I do it in a mostly respectful way.
You do get it wrong on occasion, as do coaches. Becoming a good umpire is a learning process, just as becoming a good coach is. I go out a few nights a week for games and practice. I volunteer my time and ask nothing in return except a good ball game and a good effort from my players. Please don't hang us all because a small percentage don't do their job well.
Keep up the good work.

I completely agree. Most coaches know what they are doing, and they do their jobs very well. Some are just unbelieveably stupid.

Case in point...
10U game, bases juiced, one out. B4 hits a small roller to F1. F1 throws to F2 to get the force at home and F2 then throws to F5 in time at 3B. I call out at 3B and the coach says, "Why is she out? She has to tag her." I look at him, hang my head in disgust, and walk away. He asks again. I say in a babyish way, "Da ball got dare before da runner." He says that I was talking condescending to him (which I was) and he said "who the hell do I think I am". I say, "I am someone who knows the basic rules of the game." Just a big pain in the butt, that's all. It's a shame that the players know more about the game than the coaches.

emaxos, the key in what you posted is "I do it in a mostly respectful way". Some do, and they are welcomed to question. In every pregame I state if you wish to question a call, ask for time and we will talk. Those who show no respect are the ones who give coaches a "bad name". I have had few of the "bad" types this season, but they are the ones who stick in your mind. I realize that respect works both ways, and I try and act as such. Ther are a few "bad" umpires, and they also stick in your mind. That was then, this is now, play ball, is the best answer.
CecilOne, I also call with the mrs., and have a daughter who calls also. Yes there are some (men usually) who act as if a female cant call softball. I dont understand how they can play, but are not credible enough to call. As for calling with the wife, they are the easist games I have had. After living together for 23 years, we communicate very well, reverse each others calls? no, nor would we reverse any other partners calls. Differ in opinions? yes, for 23 years, but the coaches/players/fans wont know it, nor would they with any other partner. Not all umpires I have worked with adhere, but if the crew is divided, it will be a bad night at the ball park!

Actually we do have some coaches that don't realize that we are married during a pregame and have tried to play us against each other "God blue she is just awful......""Yeah she may be a little off....I will talk to her when we get home tonight." "What do you mean When we get home tonight?" "Oh (With my best dumbfounded look) you didn't know that she was my wife?" Usually ends all complaints.

In all honesty I joke by saying "Most married couples argue about money, we argue about rules and who kicked what call." When we are on the field, being married does not matter....When asked we WILL overturn a call without hesitation if the other missed something. I don't protect her and she doesn't protect me....It's hard sometimes, but we strive to as professional as possible.

As for Female umpire credibility, that has only come into play when we call baseball(which we have retired from as of this year.). Once again, she can handle herself and I just sit back and watch. :)

Are you saying that if a coach askes properly, in the correctable situation, you will not overide your partners call if they ask for help and you know it is wrong? Please tell me that you didn't mean what you typed?

I will admit that I am very tired right now, and about 1 click behind reality in terms of brain functions and maybe I am reading to much into your post.

As for the communication issue, I would agree....We both know each other so well that verbal communication is not really needed, but we do it anyway to keep sharp in case we are with someone else. Further, good communication gives the impression to the coaches that we are on top of things and that means less hassle :)

Before we get into this, please note that the only umpire who has the authority to reverse another's call is a league or tournament UIC, and only if based on the misinterpretation of a rule.

In all other cases, a partner is to only offer their partner additional information UPON REQUEST. A veteran umpire who knows a change needs to be made can certainly find a way into a discussion their partner is having with a coach/player and break it off. These conversations should ALWAYS be private. I will NOT scream a request or answer across the field. ONLY the umpire who makes the call, can reverse it.

Thanks Mike...Like I said I was really tired when I typed that response last night(One of these days I will learn not to respond when I'm that tired). You more clearly stated what I wanted to say.

I was sitting here trying to decide whether to say something like this or just assume that all were implying it, even though saying "overrule". A few requests, like checked swing assistance, can be at a distance and then only with signals, not yelling. Occasionally, I look to the base ump for confirmation of a catch, but that is very silent.

For the newbies and unsure, may I restate Mike's keys:
- only offer their partner additional information UPON REQUEST
- ONLY the umpire who makes the call, can reverse it

This looks like the perfect place to insert this story - I saw this while watching the CWS over the weekend.

I had noticed the PU occasionally took an extra second or two before
making his calls. Pitch comes in - half swing. F2 hearing nothing
appeals to BU (yeah - I know he's supposed to ask PU to go to BU, but
that's not what he did). BU (off camera) apparently rules no swing
just as PU rings up the strike.

OOPS!! ;-)

-Kono

When I am calling the younger kids, I always assume I am dealing with inexperienced coaches (not always true, but true the majority of the time). Therefore, I don't get upset with a coach who misunderstands the rules as long as he is respectful. I try to educate the coach, not reprimand him. Where I come down hard is when he disagrees loudly from across the field (even if he is right), or when he is playing to the crowd, or when he is loudly talking about me to his team of assistant coaches with obvious intent to technically avoid saying those things to me. Saying them to me is not required, since the rule says they can't make disparaging remarks "to or about" the umpire.

Besides, these kinds of war stories here are mostly for a few chuckles, kind of a "first liar doesn't have a chance" situation. Don't infer that they apply to all coaches or that they describe how umpires feel about coaches in general.

Kellerumps, I think it has been answered, but yes, I meant exactly what I typed. I will never reverse, and have never reversed a partners call. If a coach makes a civil request for an appeal, I will entertain it, and reverse MY call if need be. If coach does not ask, rather demand, I usually will just state, I made the call. Civility, and respect from coaches/managers goes a long way, and should also be offered by the umpiring crew.

JMO, John, but you were out of line. The coach was ignorant, true, but that was no cause for trying to show him up. Just explain the rule.

Hmmmm....seems to me that this pendulum swings both ways!

A friend of mine had a HS game a few years ago. After telling one of the coaches that they weren't allowed to do something, the coach replied with the classic (I think this is in the coaches' manual), "But the umps allowed it in our last game". Manny, "That's strange, I worked your last game, and didn't allow it then either".

Bob

I know I was out of line. :( I did apologize to the coach but did say that he should at least know the basic structure of the game before he decided to coach. It was my fourth game of 5 on an 85 degree Sunday. I was just tired and annoyed, that's all.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigUmpJohn

Quote:

I know I was out of line. :( I did apologize to the coach but did say that he should at least know the basic structure of the game before he decided to coach. It was my fourth game of 5 on an 85 degree Sunday. I was just tired and annoyed, that's all.

I am glad that you recognize that you were out of line here, but remember, no matter how tired or annoyed you are, you represent not just yourself, but everyone of us in this profession. There have been many times in this hot Texas sun, 100 degrees or better, where I have worked as many as seven games in a day. No matter how silly a coach or a question might seem, I have always tried to maintain a professional attitude. We cannot be prone to temper at any time while we are on the field.

Point taken. I don't know. I just cannot understand how a coach who is supposed to be there to educate his players (This was a 10U game.) not know the game himself. Oh well, I guess it shouldn't bother me. I do have many more things to learn about what I do... the little nuances about it. I am always open to advice and comments. I appreciate it. Thanks. :D

I am sure his kid is on the team :D


But seriously, what bothers me are umpires who have no idea what it means to be professional. I am not an ump, I am just a parent who has played ball for over 20 years now (child is on an ASA 12-U SP team). There have been so many instances of coaches screaming at the umps, and the umps just screaming right back at them. And we have had many times when the blue would just go off on us parents for booing a call, and threaten to forfeit the game. We even had an ump last season make all of the kids spit their gum out before the game started. How ridiculous is that? I don’t ever remember seeing an umpire check bats before a game, hardly ever do they go over the ground rules, and the inconsistencies on the wearing of jewelry is frustrating (I know, that’s not an ASA rule).

I have been trolling this board for some time now, and you guys (and gals) are an exception to the rule as far as I’m concerned.

Can some of you come here and ump for my daughter’s league? (I'm not too far from you, John).

JP

It bothers us, too, JP.

PS, JP, glad you decided to post - welcome! http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/bigwave.gif

I'll consider it for next season. Where are you from, JP?

Thanks for the welcome Dakota!
 

I live in New Castle, a little to the north of you. My husband works in the burgh.

JP

Had a classic at a 14u state qualifier this past weekend. R1 on first d3k on batter and when batter takes off for first catcher looks like maybe I should throw down and I give a “BATTERS OUT”. 3rd base coaches looks puzzled and says “time blue” and I grant him time. Politely he ask why batter is out it was a d3k. I tell him 1st base was occupied. He says “No it wasn’t I had a steal on and r1 was already gone.” I explain that first was occupied at time of pitch again and I can tell he is accepting this but really doesn’t think it’s the right call. After the ½ inning is over first base coach comes by on his way to dug out and says, “ By the way blue I believe 1st & 2nd must be occupied for there not to be a d3k in effect. I just smile and go on about my business. 2 games later I have same team again and 3rd base coach comes for pre-game and says, “Blue we looked it up and you were right on the d3k..

OK. I live in West Mifflin. I am completely HORRIBLE with directions, but I'm pretty sure I know where that's at. I'll think about it for next season. :D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigUmpJohn

Quote:

OK. I live in West Mifflin. I am completely HORRIBLE with directions, but I'm pretty sure I know where that's at. I'll think about it for next season. :D

I really was just kidding about umping here, we might not be here next year anyhow. I was just venting I guess on what seems to be a lack of professionalism (and knowledge in some cases) with umpires around here.

Maybe somehow I can direct them to this forum, so they could learn a thing or two.


just venting again,
JP

Just call me Mr. Gullible then. :) I do need to find some other places to go to, also. Just to get a change of pace.

Back to the original topic of this thread:

"How can that be a strike?!? It can't be a strike if it lands there?" (veteran batter in men's rec ASA SP league, and no, the pitch did not land on the plate.)

Later in the same at bat, he stepped out and asked me to define the strike zone for him. I gladly enlightened him. He was so surprised, I think he had never heard the correct definition before.

My response probably would have been more like, "After all these years of *****in', you're just asking this question now?" or "You mean you don't know the rule, but you are sure that I've been wrong all this time!"

Nope, game time isn't the time for clinics. I'd be more than happy to talk to them before or after the game, but not during it unless it involved a protest.