Odd play last night
 

Fed rules, Varsity game.

Batter swings big, but hits the ball about a foot, presumably fair. I say presumably because just after the batter started running, the ball shot up the first base line. It was clear that the ball hit SOMEthing mid air to change it's speed and direction.

PU called her out, and no arguments.

In the post-game, he admits he did not actually SEE the ball hit anything, at which point I tell him all I saw was the bat on it's way down after being dropped. I also did not actually SEE the ball hit anything. I think we both were in agreement that it had to have hit SOMETHING, and that the change in direction and speed came while the ball was about waist height.

I guess the question is --- if you didn't SEE it hit body or bat - but you otherwise KNOW it hit something, do YOU make the call?

How did the batter react? Sometimes the players tell us what happened when we aren't quite sure.

Just a thought.

I will admit that I have made a similar call....slapper hits a bouncing ball down the first baseline, she runs toward first base, I see ball bouncing in the air in front of the BR, her body blocks my view of the ball, but when I can see the ball again, it is going in a totally different direction from the last point I saw it. It had to hit something and the batter-runner was the only thing there. I called her out.

To her credit, the batter just ran and didn't react to anything. OTOH - the fact that she also didn't argue (or even act surprised) tells me in retrospect we got the call right.

similar
 

I'm base Ump, ncaa game, Top of 7th, 2 outs, no one on base. batter swings, looks like slow roller towards 3rd base. BR takes off for 1st base, about half way down the line, BR starts acting like the ball hit her after she swung, F5 makes play, I call her out and as BR run s past 1st she says " no, that ball didn't my foot" very sarcastically. HC asks HP ump who says he didn't see it hit her and then I'm involved and tell him same thing. Can't call what I don't see, and it didn't look odd when it came off the bat....oh welll

Then why did she run 30' before checking up, especially if no call was made by anyone indicating there may be an issue? :rolleyes:

Then again when I saw the subject, I was expecting something along the lines of Sam Beckett's Waiting for Godot:eek: ;)

speaking of Godot...
 

Never thought of it this way, but yes, many times what we see/hear when umpiring a softball game is right out of the theatre of the absurd.

Why did an umpire who didn't make the call address the coach? I would expect an NCAA umpire to know better.

An umpire isn't required to use only sight. Sound and player reaction are relevant elements to use when making a call.

Most of us have had a swiped tag on a runner crossing a defender, who has an extended glove with the ball, and had difficulty determining whether the defender 100% tagged her. Using the player's reaction is often helpful.

Unbelievably, my plate umpire once ruled a ball fair and live after it struck a tree branch (totally in foul territory) down 3rd base because the ball fell fair. He took his eye off the ball to look at R3 (so he says). Even if he didn't see it, I don't know how he didn't hear it. What made it worse was that the branch was shaking despite the air being stagnant. Before all hell broke loose, we overturned the call and called it foul. Even I can see and hear that from 1st base.

For the skeptics, there were no squirrels or birds in the tree.

Two things-

(1)......"and then I'm involved and tell him the same thing." Doesn't make it clear if the BU was talking to the HC or the PU, who may have come to him for help.

(2) What if the BU was just standing down in his position as the HC is discussing the play with the PU, and when he was finished with the PU, made a beeline straight to the BU asking him what he saw on the play?
How would you expect an NCAA umpire in that situation to respond to the HC's question?

I would not allow a coach to ask both or all umpires the same question. If the coach came out and asked, "didn't that go off my batter's foot" I would either get together with my partners to get the call right or if it was clear to me that it didn't, I would give and answer and not allow the coach to go to my partner. Getting a 50/50 vote doesn't do us any good.

Not what happened in OP. BU repeated what his partner stated to the HC..."didn't see it hit her."

Curious as to how in an NCAA game you would "not allow the coach to go to [your] partner."

Why is the coach asking umpires individually? Taking a poll? Majority rules?

Because in any game, anywhere at anytime, over anything, a coach is capable of doing something like that.....or worse.

You took Sapper to task as to the way he responded ....("I would expect an NCAA umpire to know better.").
I'll ask again, same sitch, NCAA game coach comes to you after he received an explanation of the call by the PU and asks you for your opinion. He's calm, professional and respectful in asking the question....how would you handle it?

I would first be disappointed in my plate umpire allowing the coach to come out and forum shop.

If the coach did come out, I would say something along the lines of, "Coach, I believe you just discussed this issue with the plate umpire. It really isn't proper to now come out and speak to me about an issue my partner has already addressed. It makes it appear that you are forum shopping and that's not good for the game. If you'd like for me to discuss the play with my partner, I will do that outside your presence and then we can provide you with a final ruling."

But again, what good does it do for the plate umpire to talk to the only and then "allow" the coach to go out and talk to your partner? If the plate umpire says, "No 'x' didn't happen" and the coach doesn't like it and talks to the base umpire who now says, "Yes 'x' did happen." What do you do? Maybe you need to work in a 3-umpire crew, that way you can get a third opinion to break the tie if necessary. :p

Huh? You expect the coach to ask the BASE umpire about a ball possibly hitting the batter in the batters box? That makes no sense.

No, I don't. That's what I have been saying in the posts.


Unless I am missing something I think it was quite clear that the coach shouldn't be talking to the base umpire.

I see the clarification now. Too many pronouns. My bad, and my apologies.

xtreamump
 

nice

My apologies...
 

The coach didn't just come out to me as the Base ump..he did ask the plate ump if he would see if I had anything different. The coach at no time addressed me...but, of course we did hear the "they just want to get out of hear" whining from the crowd...:)

Sapper....just so I'm clear on your sitch, so at that point did the PU get together with you away from the HC to see if you had anything different on the play?

Yes sir...
 

that is correct

xtreamump
 

This is a Dead Horse. However I will say this. At the 12U JO B Eastern National Championship Semi Final game in York, Pa. last year, my daughter had played about 15 games in 100 degree heat. She was at bat & hit the ball, everyone in the stadium saw a little dribbler to the F5 who made a throw th F3. My Daughter in the "Heat" of the moment ran about 4 steps to 1B, then felt the pain in her left shin where the batted ball hit her, she then fell to the ground in PAIN. Me as her Dad could tell that she was hit by the batted ball. As an Umpire she was out.

Then your crew handled it perfectly......just like the NCAA manual suggests/recommends when dealing with the type of sitch that occurred with the HC in your game.
Nice job by you and your PU.

I will play the straight guy here...
By the post I take it she is right handed?
Where was she when the ball hit her?

Not within the Earth's gravitational pull. Doing 1 umpire SP games, often a ball that is hit in front of home plate changes direction. If I don't see it hit the batter, I credit topspin, call it fair emphatically and it's up to the defense to make a play. When the play is questioned, as opposed to argued, I tell them "it's just me tonight and I call what I see...or don't see".

I don't like making calls based on players' reactions because there are some good actors out there.

xtreamump
 

Mr. Rabbit "Straight Guy" ?
Right handed batter, hit by batted ball while in batters box ?

Right handed batter, hit by batted ball while in batters box ?[/QUOTE]

So you are saying that the ball that she hit, hit her while she was still in the batters box, became a little dribbler to F5 and as an umpire you would call her out.

Right handed batter, hit by batted ball while in batters box ?[/QUOTE]

So you are saying that the ball that she hit, hit her while she was still in the batters box, became a little dribbler to F5 and as an umpire you would call her out.

xtreamump.
 

Me as her Dad could tell that she was hit by the batted ball. As an Umpire she was out. (OP)

The PU called the ball fair, the BU called the BR (My Daughter) out. What I was trying to say is that everyone in the STADIUM saw a fair ball {Even me}.
After the game I asked (My Daughter) what happened & she told me that the ball hit her. I AM POSITIVE THAT THIS HOARSE IS DEAD MR. Rabbit

It changed directions (or really speed) about 2-3 steps up the first line - it was clearer than what you describe.

So you are saying that the ball that she hit, hit her while she was still in the batters box, became a little dribbler to F5 and as an umpire you would call her out.[/QUOTE]Wanna re-read his post? He called her out for being thrown out at first on a dribbler to F5.