I read the news article in the umpire attacked thread, and found this quote...
Besides wondering who the American Softball Association is (;)), and noting that the newspaper writer forgot the part about having the ball or about to receive the ball (;);)), does Bobby Sox have a must slide rule?

I also found it very curious that the game was apparently being played under two different rule books - one team playing by Bobby Sox and the other by ASA rules.

The quotes from the participants seemed to indicate they had not worked out the rules in advance, and this entire incident stemmed from the must slide rule.

I found it hard to believe in this day and age of instant litigation, that either an umpire or an association by any name would have, let alone enforce, a "must slide rule."


Scott

We are working on that, I saw the discrepency myself. We are doing "intercity" baseball in my PONY leagues. some have differing innings allowed for F1's and the "EH".

This SB story, ump should have been at site 1/2 hour before game and handled ALL of this "slide" stuff before hand, as well as any other conflicting rules.If the leagues can't agree, I am darn sure something is agreed upon before starting a game . Like I said before, i do not think ump handled this like a real 'PRO" amatuer ump....

I completely disagree. This is not the umpire's job.

The umpire comes and works a ball game under a particular set of rules. Whatever else these teams play should be left at the gate.

If this is a league or tournament which mixed rules (Forest Gump Ball), it is the administrator's job to insure that all concerned are properly informed. The only thing the umpire should be covering pre-game with the teams is the line-up and ground rules.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
Very strongly disagree Mike. You show up for a game you are assigned, teams skippers disagree on a certain ground rule.YOu make the desicive ruling on it, correct?? Admin does not always do the job, as this article inadvertantly points out. This is why a good, (if not great) plate meeting is advised.When playing "inter-city", I have found it very usefull to make sure EVERYBODY is on the same page, and why not....show up well before start time and make sure you have no probs.

IMHO, this ump plain F#####-ed up, first by not determining a "slide rule" or not and having differing rules figured to a happy medium. 2cd, by opening his stupid mouth after he has already pissed off half the folks and coaches, and third, by not having a set of rules in hand to govern this type of ball!!!( Now that is an Admin prob).

Put yourself in this sit, what would you do?? Inquiring mind wants to know....:o)

A. This is not a "ground rule".

B. The pre-game is not a rules clinic. The rules are set before a game is even scheduled by the appropriate sanctioning body. A game is either played under rule Set A or Set B. Not the umpire's call.

C. As the umpire, I make decisions, not rules.

D. I would have had no problem in that situation. As folks who work with me and those who have been on this board a while will tell you, I am anal about the rules. I don't tell coaches how to run their team or play their game. If they are playing in a league or tournament sanctioned by a set of rules with which they are not familiar, that is not my problem. I don't tell parents they cannot take their children off the field. If they want to harass me on the way out, it may very well become a police issue. I don't even tell players they cannot fight. That is not my problem. I am the umpire, not the babysitter. My job is to observe, make a decision and announce the ruling in the manner described by ASA. Why ASA? Because if the game is not ASA or ISF, I am not on the field.

E. I don't care where the game is being played. I don't care if the surface is dirt, clay, grass or asphalt, the rules remain the same. I have worked games in the middle of nowhere and in the middle of the projects, but the rules remain the same.



[Edited by IRISHMAFIA on May 14th, 2003 at 06:28 AM]

I've done pleanty of games in both softball and baseball where the teams involved play under different rules. When I am assigned a game one of the first questions I ask is "what set of rules are we using?" If I can't get told that before the game then I find out at the game. Seems to me that in this story, no one knew which set of rules were being used, including the umpire.

This is very easy to address in the pregame. After the introductions then you simply say "Coaches, this game is being played under so and so's rules. Any questions? Alright now ground rules for this field are...."

Very simple, very easy, and you can eliminate a bunch of problems before they start.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Quote:

C. As the umpire, I make decisions, not rules.

How true!

Rule making is not our domain. Nor is it our place to decide which rules will be applied in a inter-rule match.

Scott

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Skahtboi

Quote:

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA Quote: C. As the umpire, I make decisions, not rules. How true! Rule making is not our domain. Nor is it our place to decide which rules will be applied in a inter-rule match. Scott

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BUT it your job to make sure crap like this does not happen, come on guys!!!!!Anybody ever heard of "preventive officiating"? Skippy tells me we got a "must slide" other one sez "NO", I am gonna figure this out before game starts. Unless a league ad comes to us BEFORE the game, we be going by what is discussed at the plate meeting, trust me, I cover all the crap that COULD happen......

Gotta Agree with Mike wholehearted. I show up, will work the game to the best of my ability, make decisions based on the rules and then go home.

I know what my job is. I umpire: I don't help, baby or coddle coaches. I don't give rules clinics. I don't help players. If a coach asks a question regarding the rules, I will answer it in a consise professional manner and dis-engage.

I personally find it annoying to have a pre-game with someone who gives a rules clinic or makes Ultimatums.

Could the umpire in question have handled things differently or better? Chances are "Yes" but hindsight is 20/20. Looking back there are alot of situations where I wished I would have handled better......But that is called experience.

I would also guess that the coach/team/parents in question have a reputation of "Bullying" umpires and couldn't this game.

I truely believe in preventative officiating. COULD this have been prevented...Sure. Am I going to cover EVERY rules difference between ABC and XYZ associations in pregame....NOT A CHANCE.

I am very much aware of "Preventive Umpiring", but giving a rules clinic before the game is not it.

Obviously, we umpire in two different worlds. Around here, you know what you are umpiring when you make yourself available for an assignment. A good part of that is to protect the official. For example, if I am an ASA umpire and I am working a game which is not sanctioned by ASA involving teams which are registered ASA and assigned by a designate of ASA, my insurance isn't worth crap.

If there is ever a game between teams from different sanctioning bodies, the umpiring would be voluntary, but it is still the teams' decisions what rules to use, not mine.

Besides, I wouldn't be caught dead on a field where someone has instituted a "must slide" rule, even if it were ASA sanctioned.

Preventative umpiring is what you are able to do when you have a set of rules to go by, ergo you notice the pitcher leaping in her warm-ups and you tell the coach that if she does this in the game, you will nail her with an illegal pitch. That gives the coach the option of fixing it or suffering the consequences of the rules.

However, if you have no set rules to go by, then you certainly cannot utilize preventative umpiring. And this seemed to be the case here. There is no way that I would even accept an assignment under these conditions, for bedlam is certain to follow. That is why rules have to be decided prior to the contest by whoever is supposedly running the show. Furthermore, as Mike pointed out, there is certainly no insurance covering you in the event that something happens if this is an unsanctioned game.

So apparently, Chris, your concept of "preventative umpiring" and mine don't quite jive either.


Scott

Let me try this again....We are playing inter-city PONY ball here. City "A" has a 2 1/2 hour time limit for games played between thier teams. city"b" has a 2 1/4 hour time limit. I show up in city"a" and city "b" has a team there to play"a". Plate meeting I sez,"what is our time limit", we agree and move on.

basically I am not giving a rules clinic(as some have suggested), but making sure that we have no problems concerning any rule variances between the two different cities.

Chris, just to clarify. Are you talking softball or baseball? If baseball, we can end to conversation there. If softball, and you have a 2 1/2 time limit, remind me to stay away from your area ;)