b1 flies out to cf. R3 leaves base and does not retag she gets halfway home. CF throws to 3base. I called R3 out even though she did not tag R3. Was I correct? is that a force?

You have an out. Now all you need is 41 more :)

Tetris,
You post is a little vague. B1 is normally batter 1 and R3
is normally runner on 3rd with bases loaded. R1 would be
runner closest to home.

Your situtation is an appeal play. Was a verbal appeal made?
If not, you have nothing at this point by what I read in your
post.

Also welcome to the board...http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/bigwave.gif

glen

No, it is not a "force". It is an appeal out for not tagging up. That only requires touching the base as long as the ball is still live and she left the base before fielder contact with the ball.

Why did you consider "even though she did not tag R3"? Is there some rule or interpretation that mislead you?

tetris,

Welcome to the board. The runner is out as long as the defense tagged the base with the ball in their possession prior to the runner.

BTW, your scenario set-up implies baseball. Just so you know, most major softball scenarios have the offense players designated in the order in which they came to the plate that half-inning. IOW, with bases loaded and no outs in a half-inning, R1 is on 3B, R2 on 2b, R3 on 1B, B4 at bat, B5 on deck and B6 in the hole.

Hope you enjoy the discussions here,

Personally I prefer the baseball set-ups. It's easier to keep track of where the runners started :D

-Kono

I prefer the softball set-ups because you do not have to reset every offensive participant on consecutive plays. It also may give you a hint as to how many outs have occured that inning. I don't consider it that much of a hardship locating the runners at the beginning of a scenario.

:)

just wanted to know if a tag was required on runner who was caught off base after a fly ball had been caught. or could the defensive player just tag the base runner left early from.

Tetris:

Many people think that because the runner does not have to be tagged, this appeal play is a force out. (They think wrongly that "force play" and "play where the runner doesn't have to be tagged" are one and the same.) Somebody tries to make that case with me at least once a year.

Remember, however, that if the runner left 3B too soon and it wasn't obvious to everyone, then the fielder could not gain an out simply by walking across 3B in possession of the ball. The defense would still have to make it clear that they were making an appeal.

Glen:

". B1 is normally batter 1 and R3
is normally runner on 3rd with bases loaded. R1 would be
runner closest to home."

If R3 is runner on 3rd, how can R1 be closest to home?

Bob

Bob,

a typo nicely caught by you...My R3 should have
been R1..I did say R1 would be nearer HP.

glen

And, that is why the baseball method of identifying runners is simpler.
(Excuse me while I run hide before Mike gets here!)
Roger Greene

Roger,

Do not pick on Mike, BDB has done enough of that.

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk...e/biggrin3.gif

Just kidding Mike.

glen

You can hide behind me Roger - I cast a big shadow :D

I usually don't work on consecutive plays, so I don't worry about tracking the runners.

But with all the battles that I can choose to fight, this one just ain't worth it.

And the last time a defendent said he shouldn't have been ticketed for running a STOP sign because the Dept of Transportation should have installed a YIELD sign at that intersection, Roger said,"Your right, I'll fine them $59.95 and cut you loose with no fine or points!"

Right?

I prefer Abel on 3B, Baker on 2B, Charles on 1B, Edwards bats in Daniels' spot, etc.

However, one must know the alphabet, not a given these days.

Able, Baker, Charles, etc is fine, but things do get confusing when we mix 'n' match baseball baserunner numbering conventions with softball.

This is a softball board. Simple as that.

R1 is closest to home. R2 is next closest. R3 is always on 1B (bases loaded). Batters /substitutes/ etc. are numbered from the beginning of the situation / inning as necessary for clarity.

It is annoying (and sometimes confusing) to have baseball numbering used here.

New posters or visitors from baseball-land can be forgiven.

Stubborn old hands... well, we'll forgive you too, so long as you put up with some grumbling / correction! ;)

Getting back to the topic ;), neither the NFHS or ASA book prescribe anything about how a live ball appeal is made other than having the ball in their possession and tagging the base or runner. So nothing needs to be said or signaled for the umpire to react to a live ball appeal and make the call. For comparison, if a fielder catches a throw or fields a batted ball, falls down in the process and accidentally tags the runner, the runner is out.

In ASA (and in Fed, too, I'm sure), if a runner leaves 2B too soon on a fly to the outfield, and the throw comes in to F4, and as F4 walks in toward the pitcher, he happens to step on 2B without appealing to the umpire, the umpire does NOT call the runner out. The defense must appeal to the umpire that the runner left too soon.

Of course, if the runner's leaving too soon was obvious and everybody in the park knows the play is an appeal, nobody has to verbalize anything to the umpire.

Au contraire, Cecil. ASA Rule 1 - APPEAL PLAY says the appeal must be "requested" by a player, coach, or manager.

Now, the classic live ball appeal for leaving early on a caught fly ball, the fielder makes an unambiguous throw to an empty base, or a throw to a base to which a runner is retreating. This act constitutes the "request" required by the definition, since there is no other reason for the play. However, if the fielder's actions are ambiguous, (see the discussion on "accidental appeals" in the thread "tagging up..hypothetical.. ") then the fielder must do or say <u>something</u> to make the request. The onus is on the defense to recognize the missed base or base left too soon, and to appeal it. They can't just stumble into the correct actions.

Tagging a runner while off base during a live ball is always an out, so that example doesn't compare.