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-   -   SB - BR play #3 (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/8547-sb-br-play-3-a.html)

CecilOne Fri May 09, 2003 11:56am

Like "SB - Two BR Baserunning Calls ", I know my answer, but just for discussion and education.
RH batter pops up, ball coming down right in front of the LH box. F3 and F2 are both near it. Batter steps toward 1st, sees either that she is in the path of the ball or that F3 is in the way, so sidesteps to her left and stops. If the BR contacts F2 trying to make the catch, that would be interference.
Q.What if F2 doesn't make the catch because, assuming BR is in the way, she avoids contact with the BR? Would that be interference because the BR "impeded" F2 or is it just a poor decision by F2? Do we care about F3 in this case? Any difference if F3 was not nearby?

Andy Fri May 09, 2003 02:51pm

I think that I can compare this to the situation with runner on second, ground ball hit to F6 who steps up to field it, but stops at the last minute to avoid a collision with the runner. Interference every time.

Part of this goes back to the "which fielder do you protect" question. If F2, then interference, if F3, probably nothing.

Just a thought, but what about waiting to see if the ball is caught or not? If caught, no interference. If not, call the interference.

SamNVa Fri May 09, 2003 03:32pm

Andy,

If you're going to call interference, you've got to call it right away, no waiting to see what will happen. Tske your F6. R1 on 2nd play for example, suppose you decide to wait, and F6 bobbles the ball, then makes a wild throw to 1st which goes out of play. AAre yu now going to call R1 out for interference when she was no where near F6 when the throw was made? That will be sure to get a rise out of the offensive coaches and fans. As soon as a runner hinders a fielder who is legitimately attempting to field a batted ball, kill the play, call the interference and move on. Everyone will be a lot happier that way.

SamC

Andy Mon May 12, 2003 11:29am

Sam, I agree 100% with you as a general practice. My thought was specific to this play only because of the unusual nature of the play and possible call.

Just a thought...

CecilOne Mon May 12, 2003 11:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by SamNVa
Andy,

If you're going to call interference, you've got to call it right away, no waiting to see what will happen. Tske your F6. R1 on 2nd play for example, suppose you decide to wait, and F6 bobbles the ball, then makes a wild throw to 1st which goes out of play. AAre yu now going to call R1 out for interference when she was no where near F6 when the throw was made? That will be sure to get a rise out of the offensive coaches and fans. As soon as a runner hinders a fielder who is legitimately attempting to field a batted ball, kill the play, call the interference and move on. Everyone will be a lot happier that way.

SamC
1)While I don't really consider getting "a rise out of the offensive coaches and fans" or "Everyone will be a lot happier" during a play, the other runner(s) and base coaches need to know if it's an out, especially on the BR because of the force effects.
2) That gets me to another aspect of the original question, not knowing if F2 stopped because of the BR or just poor judgement of the play.

CecilOne Mon May 12, 2003 12:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SamNVa
Andy,

If you're going to call interference, you've got to call it right away, ... snip ... Everyone will be a lot happier that way.
SamC

Besides, if it's a third out, the game ends 10 seconds sooner! :D :D

kono Mon May 12, 2003 12:10pm

Okay - time to stir up the pot a little -

If you are protecting F2 and BR has to move because F3 is charging, do you have obstruction??

Dakota Tue May 13, 2003 07:42am

Quote:

Originally posted by kono
Okay - time to stir up the pot a little -

If you are protecting F2 and BR has to move because F3 is charging, do you have obstruction??

Yes.

kono Tue May 13, 2003 08:08am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota
Quote:

Originally posted by kono
Okay - time to stir up the pot a little -

If you are protecting F2 and BR has to move because F3 is charging, do you have obstruction??

Yes.

And taking it one step further...

If you are protecting F3 and the runner bumps F2 avoiding F3 you have either obstruction or nothing correct??

IRISHMAFIA Tue May 13, 2003 10:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by kono
Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota
Quote:

Originally posted by kono
Okay - time to stir up the pot a little -

If you are protecting F2 and BR has to move because F3 is charging, do you have obstruction??

Yes.

And taking it one step further...

If you are protecting F3 and the runner bumps F2 avoiding F3 you have either obstruction or nothing correct??

Obstruction.

kono Tue May 13, 2003 10:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Quote:

Originally posted by kono
Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota
Quote:

Originally posted by kono
Okay - time to stir up the pot a little -

If you are protecting F2 and BR has to move because F3 is charging, do you have obstruction??

Yes.

And taking it one step further...

If you are protecting F3 and the runner bumps F2 avoiding F3 you have either obstruction or nothing correct??

Obstruction.

Sooo.. Where does the interference call come from???

SamNVa Tue May 13, 2003 11:26am

On any batted ball at most, 1 defender can be protected at a time. If two or more fielders are going after a batted ball, the umpire must judge which player has the best chanve to field the ball and make a play. That player is the protected player. If a runner tangles with a protected player, then you have interference. If the runner tangles with another player then you have obstruction. Unfortunately, neither the runner nor the defenders know who the umpire has deemed to be the protected player until a call is made.

It should also be noted that the protection can shift from one player to another as long as the umpire judges that a play is possible. Consider this situation. R1 on 1st, F3 is set up right in the baseline between 1st and 2nd. B2 hits a hot grounder just to F3's right. If R1 collides with F3, you have obvious interference (despite the screams of obstruction coming from the 1st base coach :D ), but the nimble-footed R1 deftly side steps and goes behind F3, so all is well, but wait ... the ball tips off of F3's glove and heads in the direction of F4 who is charging toward the ball. Unfortunately our nimble-footed R1 is so relieved to have avoided interfering with F3, that she doesn't see F4 coming in and plows into her. Whap, bang, don't you know it, another interference call on R1 (as long as the umpire believed that F4 had a chance to make an out on the play).

SamC

[Edited by SamNVa on May 13th, 2003 at 11:29 AM]

DownTownTonyBrown Tue May 13, 2003 12:17pm

I'm not sure about this one Sam. I think you are confusing the interference with the ball having passed one fielder and anther having opportunity to field the ball with the runner touching that ball between the two fielders. AND I DON'T BELIEVE THIS INCLUDES A DEFLECTED BALL.

The defense, F3, had its opportunity and muffed it. I'm leaning towards obstruction (given no intention to create a collision on the part of the runner) but am going to do a little research to justify my position.

I didn't find anything concrete... does ASA have a specific ruling for this situation?

FED Rule 8-6-10a says The runner is out when: the runner interferes with a fielder attempting to field a batted fair ball. I would not consider this a batted ball after it has been deflected.

JMHO

CecilOne Tue May 13, 2003 12:45pm

batted ball until it is fielded
 
It seems to me it's a batted ball until it is fielded, goes dead or whatever (e.g., a deflected fly ball catch is an out).

SamNVa Tue May 13, 2003 03:08pm

DTTB,

Yes, ASA has a rule. It is 8.7.J I think. It is the rule that says "a runner is out when the runner interferes:" and lists 3 situations. The deflected balll portion is included in a note following the rule.

SamC


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