Confused on LL rule

[sprivitor]

Any input you might have would be great. I've been emailing the regional asst admin regarding a rule and am curious to how you might see it. I apologize for the length of this question.

EMAIL 1

In reference to the below article:
http://infosports.net/baseball/arch/2234.htm

My question is as follows:

Situation: Bases are empty, pitcher throws ball 4 to batter. Batter becomes batter-runner and advances to 1st. BEFORE BR reaches 1st base, catcher returns ball back to the pitcher. While the pitcher has the ball in the 8 foot circle with hands down not attempting to make a play on the runner and the catcher has her mask on, then If the batter-runner walks to first base and continues without stopping to 2nd, will the batter-runner be allowed to continue?


LL'S REPLY TO EMAIL 1
Steve,

If the pitcher has possession of the ball in the eight foot radius, the runner must immediately attempt to advance to the next base or return to the base the runner is entitled. If the pitcher has the ball within the pitchers circle and is not making a play (a fake throw is considered a play) runner not in contact with the base must immediately attempt to advance or return to the base. If the runner does neither of these they should be called out.


EMAIL 2 (MY REPLY)

Am I understanding that your statement that I see in the rule book applies to this situation and that the batter-runner MAY NOT go to second base if the pitcher has the ball in the circle, not making a play, before the BR reaches first?


LL'S RESPONSE TO EMAIL 2
Steve,

The runner does have the right to continue directly on to second after ball four is issued. If the runner stops in-between first and second and the pitcher has the ball in the 8 foot radius, the runner must immediately return to first or advance to second. If the runner does neither and no play is being made (fake throw is considered a play) the runner shall be called out.

Please refer to rule 7.08 on page 67.


EMAIL 3 (MY REPLY)

In response to what you stated, and after reviewing 7.08 where it states

"Note: If the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitchers circle, and is not making a play (fake throw is considered a play), runners not in contact with their bases must immediately attempt to advance or return to base"

This same rule states:

"When a runner is off a base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the eight foot raidus circle, the runner must immediately attempt to advance to the next base or return to the base the runner is entitled"

In considering the above and while considering 6.08 (a) where "batter is entitled to 1st on four balls" and with further consideration given to 7.13 "When the pitcher is in the eight foot radius circle and in possession of the ball, the base runner(s) shall not leave their bases(s) until the pitched ball has been batted or reaches the batter"; then isn't the batter runner who walked on ball 4 entitled to 1st base and when the runner reaches 1st base, she is on her base, and if the pitcher has the ball in the 8 foot radius circle before the batter runner reaches first, then shouldn't the batter runner have to remain on the base which she is entitled to - in this case, 1st base?


LL REPLY TO EMAIL 3 (NO RESPONSE AS OF YET)

[whiskers_ump]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sprivitor

Any input you might have would be great. I've been emailing the regional asst admin regarding a rule and am curious to how you might see it. I apologize for the length of this question.

EMAIL 1

In reference to the below article:
http://infosports.net/baseball/arch/2234.htm

My question is as follows:

Situation: Bases are empty, pitcher throws ball 4 to batter. Batter becomes batter-runner and advances to 1st. BEFORE BR reaches 1st base, catcher returns ball back to the pitcher. While the pitcher has the ball in the 8 foot circle with hands down not attempting to make a play on the runner and the catcher has her mask on, then If the batter-runner walks to first base and continues without stopping to 2nd, will the batter-runner be allowed to continue?

Yes, she may continue on to 2nd in this case. [My answer]

LL'S REPLY TO EMAIL 1
Steve,

If the pitcher has possession of the ball in the eight foot radius, the runner must immediately attempt to advance to the next base or return to the base the runner is entitled. If the pitcher has the ball within the pitchers circle and is not making a play (a fake throw is considered a play) runner not in contact with the base must immediately attempt to advance or return to the base. If the runner does neither of these they should be called out.


EMAIL 2 (MY REPLY)

Am I understanding that your statement that I see in the rule book applies to this situation and that the batter-runner MAY NOT go to second base if the pitcher has the ball in the circle, not making a play, before the BR reaches first?

As long as she did not stop on 1st base bag then get off and
attempt to advance. Runner is entitled to round the bag, locate
the ball then make her decision to advance or return. [My answer]

LL'S RESPONSE TO EMAIL 2
Steve,

The runner does have the right to continue directly on to second after ball four is issued. If the runner stops in-between first and second and the pitcher has the ball in the 8 foot radius, the runner must immediately return to first or advance to second. If the runner does neither and no play is being made (fake throw is considered a play) the runner shall be called out.

Please refer to rule 7.08 on page 67.


EMAIL 3 (MY REPLY)

In response to what you stated, and after reviewing 7.08 where it states

"Note: If the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitchers circle, and is not making a play (fake throw is considered a play), runners not in contact with their bases must immediately attempt to advance or return to base"

This same rule states:

"When a runner is off a base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the eight foot raidus circle, the runner must immediately attempt to advance to the next base or return to the base the runner is entitled"

In considering the above and while considering 6.08 (a) where "batter is entitled to 1st on four balls" and with further consideration given to 7.13 "When the pitcher is in the eight foot radius circle and in possession of the ball, the base runner(s) shall not leave their bases(s) until the pitched ball has been batted or reaches the batter"; then isn't the batter runner who walked on ball 4 entitled to 1st base and when the runner reaches 1st base, she is on her base, and if the pitcher has the ball in the 8 foot radius circle before the batter runner reaches first, then shouldn't the batter runner have to remain on the base which she is entitled to - in this case, 1st base?

No, she has the right to advance. A runner going to 1st may round
first, locate the ball, then at this point decide which direction she
wants to go. Once she stops and goes in either direction, back to 1B
or towards 2nd, now she is committed and must not change that move.
If so, she would then be in violation of the LBR. You seem to be
looking for, as Steve would say "boggers" where there are none. If
the runner had stopped on 1st [bag] then gotten off in the situtation
as you first posted, yes, she would be out. [My answer]

glen

LL REPLY TO EMAIL 3 (NO RESPONSE AS OF YET)

[SamNVa]

Glen is correct, as usual. I just wanted to add that 7.13 is not intended to stop runners from advancing. It simply keeps the runner "pinned" to the base once she stops there.

SamC