Co-ed Missed Base
 

ASA Co-Ed

Two outs, bottom of 7th, tied game, runners on 2B & 3B.

Male batter draws a base on balls and trots down and touches 1B, R1 scores and R2 heads toward 3B, but breaks off early and heads toward the plate for the celebration.

Pitcher gets BU's attention as if to have a conversation and waits until R2 leaves playable territory. Pitcher then appeals R2 missing 3B. Umpire accepts the appeal and rules R2 out.

What, if any, is your ruling?

I think the only sig of corec is that the batter gets two bases, forcing the runners. So, it is just a question of whether bases have to be touched after the game "ends", and I say no.
Disclaimer, did not look it up, not up to date on dead ball running like home runs.

I would say that since the male BR is awarded 2B and not 1B, R2 no longer has the rights to 2B and is forced to advance. The defense properly appealed, so this would be a force out.

Since the 3rd out was a force out, no runs score, we go to the 8th.

OK, help me with nitty-gritty. Isn't the male batter awarded 2nd if followed by a female batter, and that is nul if the game or inning end.

Also, is R2 going to 3rd an award, because of the BB 2 bases, or really a force?

The male batter is always awarded 2nd base. Always, always, always.

It is no different than the scenario with two outs and bases loaded for a female batter who draws a walk, and R2 on 2B fails to touch 3B.

A proper appeal will result in the third out and the run does not score.

There is no "exception" for the runner to not have to touch the base he/she is forced to just because the force was made by a male batter being awarded two bases on a walk.

P.S. In my experience most coed SP teams will have no idea they can appeal this. You and your partner (if you have one) will be the only ones who know. Pause long enough to make sure the defense will not surprise you with an appeal.. as soon as it is clear they will not, exit the field the game is over.

I don't work SP, but I was watching a friend play U-trip co-ed. In that game, when a male was walked, the female batting next was given the option to hit or take a walk. Is that a U-trip book rule or does it sound local? Does ASA have a similar 'option'?

ASA has a similar rule.

Less than two outs, the female batter must bat.

With two outs, the female batter has the option to bat or take an award of 1B.

In either case, the male batter is always awarded 2B.

I didn't look it up, and am just guessing. I'm going to go with the timing play logic, similar to runners tagging. So if the runner from third scored prior to a legal appeal on another runner for leaving a base too early, the run would score.

Similarly, w/ runners on second & third and 2 outs, a hard ground ball to F1 who throws it over the fence. BR would be awarded second base, and runners would advance appropriately. If runner from third scored, and runner from second didn't touch third base, but came in for the celebration, the run would count and game over.

Yeah/nay?

I'll add that while R2 may have been "forced to advance", I don't think this is a force out.

Care to explain why?

Night At The Museum: Battle for the Smithsonian

THINKING.... THINKING..... THINKING.....

I'm thinking back to a case play or perhaps a discussion on this board. Game is FP in this scenario. W/ bases loaded and 2 outs, batter draws a walk. R1 casually walks toward home. R2 agressively takes third and over-runs. F2 throws to F5 who tags R2 for the third out before R1 touches home.

In this case I believe the run still counted.

But in your sitch, the runner HAD reached the base to which they were forced. Very different from the OP.

Score the run. An award beyond 1st to the BR (2nd base in this case) does not create a force.

Imagine the simpler situation, R1 and R2 on 3rd and 2nd, 2 outs. Grounder to third who incidentally touches third before throwing, and throws the ball into the dugout. BR is awarded 2nd - R2 is not suddenly forced to third. Or additionally, should R2 not ever advance to 3rd, but run off the field with the apparent win, you do not have an out here.

But that's just it. R2 is forced to advance because the batter became a batter-runner. R2 no longer has the right to occupy his base because of this, and therefore, I believe this is a force out.

Think about what you just said, I see it as the key to this situation.

The batter becoming a batter-runner works for one base with me. After passing first, is that the batter becoming a batter-runner, or isn't that individual now a runner?

Bottom line to me, no such thing as a two base force out. Required to advance because the batter got a two base award is not a force out in my book. Timing play.

I understand, and I'm focusing on 8-5-A:
R2 is forced to vacate his/her base. Their word.

FORCE OUT: An out which may be made only when a runner loses the right to the base that the runner is occupying because the batter becomes a batter-runner, and before the batter-runner or a trailing runner has been put out.

8.1. THE BATTER BECOMES A BATTER-RUNNER
C. When four balls have been called by the umpire. The batter-runner is awarded first base
Effect
4. (Co-ed) The ball is dead. A walk to a male batter will result in a two base award. The next batter (a female) shall bat.

Don't disagree this doesn't seem right, but would it be a force out the runner started on 1B and missed 2B on the way to 3B? If so, what's the difference? Remember, we are only talking about a player forced to vacate a base and not touching the base to which she is forced.

As Dave said, it is the way the rule is written and I don't think it would be wrong to treat this as a force. Especially since a protest would have the weight of the rule behind it.

I don't buy it, but let me ask you this.

Say BR simply refuses to go to 2nd, or leaves the field of play after advancing to 1st. Would we treat the out at 2nd as a force? Of course not.

More food for thought. A ground rule double is also a 2-base award. A runner from 2nd would similarly be "forced" to vacate 2nd base. However, if you ruled such a player missing 3rd base on his way home to be a "force out", you'd be laughed out of the locker room. So why is THIS 2-base award different from THAT 2-base award?

Answer ... it's not.

The answer is that they are, by their very nature, very different.

On a two base award (or ground rule double), the award is made to every runner, including the batter-runner. In this kind of an award, if there are two runners who would be awarded the same base, the bases awarded would be first governed by the lead runner (8-3-B and 8-3-E).

In the OP, however, the base award only applies to the batter-runner, and the positions of all other runners are governed by the batter-runner's awarded base. The other runners are not "awarded" bases, they are simply allowed to advance without liability to be put out when they are forced to advance.

That, to me, is a big difference.

No, because it is a dead ball.

Yeah, it is because, as noted, all runners are awarded bases on a GRD or any ball which goes out of play. Only the batter is awarded base(s) on a walk.

Look, no one is arguing this isn't strange or even arguable, but as the rules read, it is what it is

Reported.