What's the Call?
 

ASA
Batter with 3-0 count during an intentional walk situation.
Batter does not want the next pitch to be Ball 4.
Pitchout on the way, way off the plate.
Batter throws the bat at the ball and makes contact with the ball that settles in fair territory. (Bottom line, bat is not in batter's hands at time of bat contact with ball).

What's the call?

Nothing in the ASA definition of batted ball says the bat must be in the batters hands at the time of contact. Its simply a pitched ball that has hit the bat and lands in fair or foul territory.

As long as the batter did not have a foot completely outside the batters box at the time the bat contacted the ball, legally batted ball.

Perhaps...
 

but I think I'd have unsportsmanlike conduct for throwing the bat. The batter would be ejected and I'd be looking for a sub. If no sub is available then we have another ruling to make.

For attempting to hit the ball? :eek: Good luck with that.

Yeah, I don't think I'd go that far. I'd probably tell the batter to knock that crap off, but I don't think I'd eject her for USC.

Fair Ball.

id congratulate her and shake her hand if she could pull that move off.

just out of curiosity for the OP, how did the batter throw the bat? did she let go during a normal swing and the bat helicoptered? did she sorta square to bunt and toss the bat towards the other batters box?....

Standard answer.

If no rule makes 'x' illegal, it is legal. Apply rules that exist.

There are definitions for "Batted Ball" and "Illegally Batted Ball"; there is an entire Chapter (Rule 7) addressing "Batting". Nothings says that is anything but a batted ball in fair territory.

There is only one call, already made by MnBlue; point fair and proceed.

Oh Dear God.

That's worse than you pulling a player out of the dugout to explain a call to last week.

If you're kidding, it didn't come across that way.

Really? Why - what did the batter do that is illegal or even unsportsmanlike. I would suggest you not go running around telling players to "knock off crap" that is not, in fact, against the rules.

No, but it's engaging in a potentially and highly unsafe behavior on the field.

Mind you, I wouldn't use the same "knock that crap off" phrase to the player or coach.

Highly unsafe??????
We must be picturing something completely different.


I guess with that kind of thinking, we better remove the hit and run from the playbook!

:eek:

That could be.

I'm picturing the batter kind of "chucking" the bat out a ways.

We now have a bat that, upon impact with the ball, is completely out of anyone's control near the catcher (and possibly me), probably spinning wildly.

With your limited experience with fastpitch I'm guessing you have yet to see a batter bunt by completely giving up the bat? It is more common for older, speedy left handed hitters to use this type of bunting tactic. It isn't a common bunting style, but not completely unheard of.

I didn't see this happen this past weekend - but sure used to see it regularly in men's ball. Almost an "unfair" advantage for a quick left-handed batter.

Hmmmmm - maybe that's where the USC thought comes in...........:rolleyes:

You're correct, I've not seen it.

The thought of a 40-50 MPH pitch coming in and striking an uncontrolled bat in mid-air right in front of a catcher is, well, unnerving.

If discarding the bat in that manner to hit the ball hinders the catcher from making a play on the ball, would you not consider that INT under 8-2-F-5?

I played almost 30 years and whenever I bunted [I always held onto the bat] I always tried to drop the bat in a position where I thought it would hinder the catcher from making a play on the ball. Never did get called for INT.

DEAD BALL ! DEAD BALL ! DEAD BALL !

INTERFERENCE !


How was that?

It's hard to visualize, but I have never had the bat even come close to interfering with F2, or more importantly, me! :eek:

The bat doesn't 'fly' when the ball hits it, it just pretty much falls to the ground.

Highly unsafe? Probably less unsafe than a regular base hit... who in the world is the batter going to hurt throwing his bat toward a pitch so bad he couldn't hit it otherwise? And the ball's not going to come off very hard. Why in the world would you consider this unsafe.

Let me take it a step further and remove the opinion out of it... don't you believe that if TPTB wanted such an action to be against the rules or considered it unsafe (especially considering some of the other safety rules out there), that TPTB would have put a prohibition of this action in the rulebook? What do you read from them not doing so?

Honestly, if it was "in front of the catcher" ... then the batter didn't need to release the bat to reach it, right? This action is WAY WAY WAY less dangerous than simply flinging the bat after a full swing ... and THAT is not prohibited in any real ruleset. So why would this infinitely less dangerous act be?

40-50? Oh, you must still be working 12U. :rolleyes:

There is just something that doesn't seem right about this. :confused:
Couldn't this be considered Illegal Use of Equipment?
(Where ever Illegal Use of Equipment is defined...)

How about this definition:
BLOCKED BALL: A batted, pitched or thrown ball that is touched, stopped or handled by a person not engaged in the game, or which touches loose equipment or any object that is not part of the official equipment or official playing area.

But then contradicted here:
EQUIPMENT ON THE PLAYING FIELD.
Loose equipment, miscellaneous items or a detached part of a player’s uniform, other than that being legally used in the game at the time, should not be within live ball territory. Official equipment which may be in live ball territory with no penalty includes the batter’s bat, the catcher’s mask, umpire paraphernalia, a helmet which has inadvertently fallen off an offensive or defensive player during play or any equipment belonging to a person assigned to the game. Loose equipment, miscellaneous items or detached uniform parts which are in live ball territory and are not being legally used in the game at the time could cause a blocked ball or interference.

And:
SPORTING BEHAVIOR
The values of softball competition are based on good sporting behavior and
fair play. The following are examples, although not limited to, of unsporting
behavior:
A. Uniforms not worn properly, such as jerseys not tucked in, sleeves rolled
under, and caps worn backwards.
B. Exposed undergarments of different colors worn by different teammates
on the same team.
C. Coaching tactics that endanger the safety of players.
D. After equipment check, illegal equipment being put back into play.
E. Use of equipment for other than its intended design.

WHY THEN is a defender penalized, but not an offensive player?
When a fielder intentionally contacts or catches a fair batted, a thrown, or a pitched ball with any part of the uniform or equipment that is detached from its proper place.
EFFECT: Delayed Dead Ball and the batter and runners are entitled to:
1. three bases from the time of the pitch if a batted ball,
2. two bases from the time of the throw if a thrown ball,
3. one base from the time of the pitch if a pitched ball

Just askin'.
:rolleyes:

Your citations defeat your claim. The bat is being used exactly as meant to be used.

And when I played FP in the Navy, I often ran the box and left the bat in mid-air over the plate while I was running.

BTW, how is it a defender can throw the glove at a ball in foul territory to keep from rolling fair without penalty?

:p Hah! Waaayyyy too late! That horse left the barn a long long time ago.

Like a recent partner. After the batter hit a flat slow pitch, he finally called the illegal pitch. Batter didn't quite know what to do at that point.

I can go along with that. Just had to put it out there.

And you got to 1B before the bat hit the ground? :eek:

Same way a batter who bunted a ball that is in foul ground about to go fair and kicks the ball.

Doesn't seem unfair to me. The intentional walk is supposed to place the pitch out of reach of the batter. Tossing the bat, timing it correctly, to hit a fair ball would seem to require a lot of skill (or luck). If the batter can do that and defeat the intentional walk, good for him/her.

Oh, no, Mr. Strawman, the discussion here is based upon out-of-place equipment, not contacting a batted ball which isn't fair.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...qZbXmJR9d5MwTg
If I only had a brain....

FWIW

there used to be a subsection in 7-6 saying what the batter shall not do, but they have since removed that subsection. even in the old rule, nothing from the OPs description was listed.

I had this scenario given to me when I qualified for ISF.
If the bat hits the ball and the player is in the box (both feet) then you have a fair batted ball.
I can't remember which NCAA team it was that was doing this in a bunt situation and it was legal then.
Now, I haven't worked games in a few years but I don't know of any rule change that would address this.

Hey, ease up off the recent SP-to-FP convert here. ;)

Again, I've not seen it happen, and maybe what I have pictured in my mind is not exactly how it'd go down. What I'm picturing is a pitch-out striking the bat in mid-air, causing it to tumble around, probably in the catcher's direction.

I'd have to see it with my own eyes.

I know, it's not a baseball board, but I'm surprised nobody's brought up Bill Buckner yet. He used to do this All. The. Time. to protect the runner on a pitchout. He was really good at it, too; the pitchout would be two and a half feet outside, he'd throw the bat at it, and hit the damn thing. Too bad he couldn't hit normal pitches that well . . .

Anyway, for those who've never seen it, it's not all that uncommon in my opinion.

Buckner played 22 seasons and amassed a .289 batting average, led the league in B.A. one year and hit nearly 500 doubles. It think that he could hit the normal pitches fairly well.

It was his fielding for which Billy Bucks will be forever remembered!

Just answerin...:)

Tony

Don't try so hard.....

Maybe if you thought about it this way......
Isn't it to the pitchers job to pitch the ball TO THE BATTER?
Isn't it then a batter's job to attempt put the BALL IN PLAY?

Now the batter can't step out of the box to hit the ball, but if she is reaching and the ball is just out of reach (or she looses the bat) and the bat strikes the pitch, what's the problem?
Play the ball fair or foul...

Pitch -> Ball ->Bat:D

and high top cleats:D

What? And ruin all the fun?

Buckner played 22 seasons and amassed a .991 fielding percentage. One error in every 101 (approximate) opportunites is a pretty respectable fielding stat.

It was THE ONE ERROR for which he will be forever remembered.

Timing is everything. :rolleyes: ;)

Do keep in mind: 6 oz ball, 20+ oz bat. Yes, the ball is travelling fast, but it has 1/3 to 1/4 the mass. Tumble maybe, spin, not so much.

Just to be fair... Buckner was injured, and been playing through the injury, but was a known defensive liability due to the injury. The real blame belongs with the manager, John McNamara, for leaving a defensive liability (due to injury) in the game in the bottom of the 10th after his team had the lead.

.991 FP for a 1B is well below average. this year, there are 23 qualified 1B, the lowest has a .990 FP

pulling up a random buckner year, in 86 he was 13/16 qualified 1B in FP.

people forget there was a good chance mookie beats out the play at first even with a clean catch by buckner.

Wait...
Did you just QUOTE Wikipedia as a legitimate source of information? :eek:

Tom, I had higher hopes that you were smarter than that. :(





:D ;) :p

Well, it's an easy source of info, and disclosure of the source was provided. Anyone is free to search through the near-infinite sources of baseball stats and folklore if they wish! :p

Sorry bout that!!

No worries, man. :)

But seriously. Winged monkey? C'mon, man...

Just following directions. Not a conscious decision on my part - just where you landed. (6 points to whoever has the slightest idea what we're talking about - excluding Monty).