OMG Did I hear this correctly?
 

"The third base umpire is from Japan, so obviously she wouldn't have made that call (against Japan) unle
unless she was sure" :rolleyes:

:eek:

That was very odd. Good call though.

now they are completely screwing up explaining when a ball is fair or foul. They keep talking about where the runner is!!:rolleyes:


The play resulted in an INT call on R1 (from 3rd) - after which there was a long discussion with the coach....
Then, get this............
The umpires left the batter at the plate for a pitch, then realized...ooooops and put her on first!
:eek:

I wonder who's buying the drinks for that one!


And also as an aside.... did you notice as the inning started, the male announcer was being cute and while acknowledging that it is traditional not to mention things like pending shut outs, no hitters, etc, couldn't help but notice there were a lot of zeros on the board................ and then Japan scored!

they had a breakdown earlier in the game with the bases loaded. fly ball to left, runners tag. lf throws home to catcher who throws to 3rd base to try to get runner from 2nd. 3bu went out on the fly and no one covered 3rd base.

not good.

oh, oh.....

Now after pointing out and repeating how he just blew a call, Female TH remembers to send a "special greeting" to U1's daughter on her 113th birthday...

Am I making this up?

What about the batter receiving an additional 2 pitches before the umpires realized their mistake and awarded the batter 1st base from this play. These umpires un-rung the bell at the highest level. WOW!!!

On the fly ball tag up, HP couldn't stay at 3B because U1 wasn't covering HP. If you watch the replay, you can catch U1 only about 1/2 way down the line as R3 scores. No way he was in position to make a call.

With bases loaded, there is no rotation of U1 home. And if U3 chased, then U1 should have a return throw to 3B.

4-man. U1 is not going to 3B.

And the Japanese coach ran to the dugout to watch the replay!!! And then they used it in the discussion with PU.

The THs kept saying both umpires called it foul and then reversed their decision to an out. I wish they would get a clue. Don't remember the name, but the guy TH was hammering the umpires for that. Just another example of THs making a fool of themselves.

It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

The problem here is that most of the people watching are going to buy whatever THs say as fact.

Exactly... WE are pretty much the only listeners who are aware of the mistake.

I still, get "but her foot was in (foul/fair) territory when she touched it" more than few times per season....

Thanks for the morning chuckle.

Ahhh. Didn't realize it was 4-umpires. Still, U1 isn't rotating home, correct?

The call at first was brutal but not as bad as the one against Japan the other night. The sliding into first base apparently must make it tough to hear the ball and see exactly where the runner's hands are. I know that you have to be a great umpire to work at this level so even the good ones can have bad calls.

I had a hs umpire once tell me he has never ever blown a call...."ever".

Unfortunately for the game of softball, it seems impossible to watch a televised game without seeing sloppy play, listening to horrible announcers, and watching the "best of the best" umpires absolutely lay an egg. The kicked calls Monday night were bad enough, but not placing the BR on 1st after the supposed runner's INT (the ball was foul) is inexcusable. There were FOUR of them on the field! Four "brain farts" at once? Please!

I don't see the kinds and number of mistakes made in NCAA baseball or certainly not MLB games as I do in almost every televised softball game. This and the low quality of play and announcing will make these games un-watchable to the casual fan and particularly a baseball fan.

USA, Canada, Australia, and Japan generally have very high quality of play, certainly on par with similar levels of amateur baseball.

However, I think it is past time for major international sporting event organizers to recognize the third team on the field and quit assuming they can mix and match game officials however best meets their diversity or fairness objectives and allow a team of officials to work together over the course of the tournament. MLB (since you bring them up) has umpire teams that stay together the entire season (barring injuries and allowing for time off / vacations).

Since fastpitch softball is a developing sport in most countries, it is also should be recognized that officials from those "developing sport" countries see fewer games of elite play. It would improve the officiating if this was taken into account (how, I don't know... shutting out officials from those countries won't work, either).

Well, I'm going to take this opportunity to promote ASA in this field. As much as many accuse ASA of demanding robotics (I don't believe they do), there is one thing a good ASA umpire can depend upon. I should, and have, walked onto the field with partners I have never met and the pregame was pretty much, "everything by the book" and we all had excellent games. One coach wanted to know why, at a NC, they put three local umpires together on the same game. One was from the SW coast of FL and the other from Columbus, OH area. Did not meet the PU until 15 minutes before the game. The umpire from FL didn't even know our names until after the game.

I would add that some of this does disappear at the local level because the cohesiveness of the staff seems to have become somewhat flexible with a fair amount of personal preference sneaking into some training.

And that is the problem with the ISF. You can send certain trainers all over the world to help train umpires and umpire trainers, but they cannot stay there and monitor how that training info is passed onto the local umpires. And, like it or not, each country develops their own umpires for international play and it isn't always the same as the next country.

What does the make-up of the crew have to do with fair/foul, out/safe, and rules application?

As far as robotics goes, T.S. on the plate and the gentleman at 2nd certainly qualified. I thought Steve at 1st didn't. Can't say about the lady from Japan, but her interaction with Erickson after the HBP call was interesting. I almost looked as if she were saying, "You like that call?". Maybe it's a cultural thing.

Bingo. In addition to training differences Mike mentioned, there are also cultural differences, especially in handling disputes, how important "face" is, etc. I would be astonished if these issues did not affect umpires, since they surely do affect business relationships between Americans and Asians (for example)... I know this from personal experience. Suppose an umpire on an all-American crew makes a call, and would ordinarily go to his partner if questioned by the coach. Now suppose it is an international crew and the cultural ways of even simple things like dealing with coaches (conflict) or going for help (face) are different. I don't know if international umpires get any training in cultural differences and how to deal with them, but if they don't, it will most definitely affect the performance of the crew even on simple things.

Tom, no they don't get intercultural training - at least I did not get it from any umpire training. Maybe we will get it before the tournament, but I doubt it.

And I think what Mike points out is one point that does not work internationally. There is a ISF 4MS and 3MS but most umpires use different system during the year. Be it their national or regional (e.g. European) 4MS, 3MS or 2MS. Therefore the system used at the tournament is not the one they practice at home.

I can basically talk from an European perspective but the level of umpirering and especially of umpire training differs a lot from country to country. There is an European umpire license and you need to pass a course for that. But the umpires attending have totally different levels. Since some countries don't have their own umpire training program, for one umpire it might be the first umpire course the attend - while for others get a annual training and feedbacks during the year.
That makes it hard to find a good level for every umpire attending.

And then there is also the language barrier! For some it works ok with English to talk off the field, but under pressure and with the necessity to accurate in the wording when it comes down to rules on the field it is a different story!

I don't have a solution either. But I know, there has been an agreement signed between ASA und ESF (European Softball Federation - the European umbrella organization for the national federations) that should be the basis for support. Maybe that can be used also for umpire exchange and training.

Raoul

I agree with you Dakota, but would add that I would think there has to be some sort of cultural training, especially in this day. Back when I was a Paramedic I got the chance to work the 1987 Pan Am games in Indy. Before any of us were assigned our first venue we had to go through a short culture class. It was not extensive at all but covered some things like making the "OK" sign is not acceptable in many countries and several it is actually an offensive sign.
I would think with today's much higher awareness of cultural differences that in an international event these differences would be covered at some point. As far as the ISF, I would think it would be part of training, but do not know this.

Well, guess I'm gonna be the insensitive guy, but I'm a believer of when in Rome, I will do what the Romans do. IMO, it is up to the people visiting an area to adjust, not those who live there, to that culture.

Mike, what does that mean in an international crew? Maybe there is no Roman around ;)

As far as the ISF clinic go: they try to organize it regionally - to lower cost for the pax (or national federations). Therefore at each clinic the pax come from one region (e.g. europe). In my clinic in The Netherlands there was only one pax from the US the rest were from europe - where there are still cultural differences but you basically know the people from tournaments in Europe.

But if it becomes cross-regional that's where the differences grow.

Raoul

I may agree with this in interaction with society in general, but what we're talking about here is operating as a cohesive crew and interacting with international coaches.

Agree....to a point. The host is going to have the majority of the umpires, so which group should, and would it be easier, to allow for an adjustment.

I understand what you are saying, but if I'm working a game in Mexico, I would not expect the multitude of Mexican umpires to accommodate my language, but my responsibility to learn how to communicate with them.

Why continue to be amazed at THs who do softball games on television??? The other day, during the USA/Canada match, I think it was, when the umpiring crew was wearing pink shirts, the male TH said, "I am sure this is a welcome change in this heat from the black shirts they normally wear..."

:rolleyes:

I remember thinking WTH? Sometimes the best humor comes from listening to the THs and their unintelligible comments.

The TH makes sense to most of the TV audiance, they are not directing their comments to umpires who have a language all their own. I have called ball for almost 40 years and those guys don't upset me at all. :)

Despite the fact that I may title a post "OMG", or "WTF" or something like that, of course I'm not amazed, surprised or upset with what they say....
It is just a vehicle to share my amusement with people here who DO know the difference.....

On the other hand, I have sometimes been upset when umpires get thrown under the bus and then run over repeatedly by these same TH's.
(As I saw most recently in the FL HS State Championships) :mad:

Agree. That was the crew from my association who had to clean up after a girl was (apparently) allowed to throw IPs all season ... and in the semifinals. I think the quote from the TH was something like, "Well, she's not THAT illegal." Uggh!

If ahe's illegal, call it early and often ... until she fixes the problem. PLEASE!

For the record, she WAS called illegal during the season..... often.
Admittedly she wasn't always called when it happened........ you and I both know that there are always guys in associations who for what ever ereason won't call IPs when they happen, but there were enough guys in her association who did call her.

Apprently after her team moved on, she wasn't called until that final game....
Tell your guys I was suffering with them as I watched....... and listened

Do we believe you Hugo? Or her coach? ("You're the only crew that's called her on that all year!") ;);)

I guess you have me there.....:rolleyes:

Actually, I don't have the source material, but my recollection of the comments implied that they hadn't been called all year, but what he really said was that they hadn't been called post season or during the tournament or something like that......

I specifically remember a news article that said when he was asked if she was illegal, he didin't respond..... (I thought I had the article bookmarked, but apparently it is no longer available on line)

During the season when she got called, he hardly even argued. Then she would get good, but sure enough a little later, boom.

I give her credit for recognizing the situation and making the only possible call.
In ISF or other 4 ump, does the U2 cover the base if the U3 goes out?

BTW, what was with the mix of ISF/ASA logos?

Don't work alot of 4 man, but my understanding is that U2 goes out on all fly balls except on the line (this ball was pretty much directly to F7) While U3 did recognize the situation, i think the 1st mistake was her going out in the first place.

As for the mix in logos? I was told it was because ISF has a back log (one might say lack of money and ordering) in logo equipment, and the ones that did not have full gear when they got the assignment were told to wear their ASA logo stuff.

@CecilOne
in ISF 4MS if U3 goes out, HP will be responsible for the call at 3B (and U1 will go home after the release of the BR). U2 will only cover 2B.

@okla21fan
U2 goes out on all flyballs but those between the F7 or F9 and the foulline.

Raoul

Given the scenario (bases loaded) I have to disagree. I you start a play with a runner at 2B or 3B, there should be no rotation.

@Irish your were right for this situation. Sorry. I didn't read carefully enough - didn't recall the play at HP!

So, yes if HP goes back Home (from Holdingposition) U2 is the backfill for a secondary play at 3B. But if there is a play back at 3B HP as well as a first play at 3B. So there might be still a rotation if U3 goes out.

Raoul