umpire-catcher courtesies
 

Do any of y'all practice courtesies to batters or catchers who've just been nailed by a pitch/foul ball? I've sorta developed a habit of taking my time to brush the plate, as well as checking the game ball, reloading my ball bags while the hitter stumbles down towards 1st to give her a chance to catch her breath, and then take my time getting back behind the catcher for the next pitch. I do the same with catchers who get their bell rung on a foul ball.

do you ever address your catchers by name (it's not that hard to learn names of players you see often)?

I will always brush the plate, no matter how clean it is to give my catcher a chance to catch her breath. Earlier this year I had a catcher ask for time to go out to the pitcher when I had taken a foul ball.

I was walking out to the mound after the time I usually allow and she said to me ' Are you ready to go now?'. I was not aware that the time was for me, she and the pitcher had nothing to say, just a courtesy from the catcher to me.

Anytime a player gets hurt, I'll stall a little to let the player catch their breath, walk it off, take a few steps to stretch it out, etc. I'll take my time walking back to the plate, brush it off a little, check my indicator, adjust my hat, then ask the player if they're ready.

I don't use any stall tactics. I stand there and allow a player who shows any indication of being hurt or dazed in any fashion to collect themselves before restarting. If someone has a problem with me doing that, they can find another game to watch.

I see no reason to play games over a player's/coach's/umpire's well-being.

I don't play games either. (1) Hit batter: The actions of the batter will tell you if you need to delay the restart of the game. (2) Hit catcher: Again, the catcher's actions will give you a clue as to whether to call TO to give the player some time to "compose" herself. In either case there is no compelling reason to restart the game immediately. Everybody knows that a player has taken one and that it is entirely appropriate to stop the game if neccessary for the benefit of the player who has just been hit by the ball. It is really no different that anyother injured player.

MTD, Sr.

I see no reason to fake the delay, checking a player's well being is too important and besides, I prefer the player and coach to know I think so and allow them to be realistic, not rushed by me. Struck in the head, more time, watchng the player walk and looking the player in the eye to help my opinion about possible concussion.

Yes, a catcher was instructed by coach to ask for time (of course, he said "call") when I took a hard hit. That was appreciated, but in the very few cases I need it, I will call time for myself as well. Like the other day, needed ice on my hand to reduce swelling. No big deal, stop the timer, take care of it.

I always make sure the player is ready to continue... and then it always seems the plate is a little dirty right at that moment.

That's the way I like it too! A player get hurt by a pitch. Let her take the time she need to recover. No catcher likes it to get a steeling limping runner, not that that runner will be steeling... A catcher can slow herself down when she finds the ball and throws it back to F1. I will however not take any action to let her be quick. Mostly the are quick enough back, and F1 or batter take an extra amount of time... Them I will speed up!
The only friends I have, as PU, among the players are the catchers from both teams. And if they screw up, cross my border then they are in really big trouble... Most catchers are smart enough to back off when I warn them not to push it too far. Some are not, they will be catching very long anymore in my game. The coach will sub or replace them.

I may not always brush the plate when a catcher takes a foul ball or otherwise gets hit, but I will ask if they are OK. If we need to stop for a bit, we do. If I get a "Yeah, I'm fine" right away, I just tell them I will always ask just to make sure...kind of a "you and I are back her together with balls being thrown at us."

When a batter is hit, we kill the ball (duh), and most of the time, the batter will stumble/limp/hop down to first base, the first base coach will ask for time (which we already have) to let the player regain composure. I let them take as much time as they need, within reason, and I will usually confirm with the coach, in a youth game, that the player is ready to go.

I have found that the Men's FP game is a bit different...if the PU gets hit, the catcher will almost automatically ask for time and go talk to his pitcher. If the catcher gets hit, the PU will almost automatically call time and brush the plate. I think most of that comes from a baseball mentality, since most of the mens FP players have played some high level baseball in the past. I have also found that the catcher will almost always apologize if the PU gets hit, even if its a foul ball that the catcher had no chance of deflecting.

When a mens batter gets hit, if they don't want to charge the pitcher :), they almost always suck it up and get to first base to show how tough they are...they certainly don't want anyone to know if they're hurt! :rolleyes:

Which is what is behind the courtesies. I see no harm in them, but they are a courtesy intended to provide ego cover for a minor issue. I've seen plenty of female catchers (older ages) who have this same "tough it out" attitude.

These courtesies are not useful for actual injuries or with younger players.

I agree with Mike, Mark, Cecil and Tom. No need for any game playing or stalling tactics. Just wait until the player indicates she is ready to go on.

... and you are the one with a glove! :cool:

I saw a different version of this at the Maryland regional this past weekend. I had noticed during the game that the catcher from Maryland would tell the coach if a close pitch was outside or inside with hand signals. At one point, this catcher gave the "I don't know" sign to the coach. Almost immediately after that the umpire called time and brushed off the plate that appeared to be very clean. You could see the catcher nodding her head up and down. It was my assumption this was the umpire informing the catcher that he would not put up with that.

Rabbit ears are bad... what's this one, Rabbit eyes? :)

Why would it be innappropriate for the catcher to be relaying infromation to the coach on where the pitch was ending up? If the coach is calling pitches wouldn't you want to know where that pitch was missing??

And if she doesn't know, she doesn't know. As long as she's not making some snide remark about me, what's the big deal?

I think the inappropriate was when F2 shrugged the shoulders to indicate they didn't know where the pitch was. Apparently this PU took offense to F2's lack of knowledge. Talk about picking nits though.

why?

Also, welcome to the forum. Where in MD?

to Irishmafia....boy you are breath of fresh air.....no need to be concerned about the well being of a 15 year old girl. She's tough!!! You must be a lot of fun to work with

You're talking about very good D1 players. She knew where the pitch was and let the coach know with that shrug. Not too sure that it's picking nits, but I don't use that particular approach.

WTF are you talking about? Think you need to go back to the top and try reading the actual posts in the thread.

Irish, you have yourself an admirer! :D

easssssyyyyyyyyy........

It's picking nits if you're going to get offended by it and stop the game to brush the plate to warn the catcher. Basically you're telling her to lie? If she "let the coach know" that she thought it was a strike by that shrug - what did you expect her to say instead? She thought it was a strike - telling the coach a direction is giving him bad information.

Huh ?? Can you explain this non-sequitur? :confused:

When the coach asks where the pitch missed, and the catcher shrugs her shoulders, that is telling everybody that is watching that she (F2) thought it was a strike and the umpire missed it. It's going toward the direction of showing up the umpire.

I don't know that I would be so obvious as to brush a clean plate, but I would say to the catcher, "If you don't know where it missed, ask..I'll tell you."

If I did miss the pitch (it happened once :rolleyes:), I will say, "Sorry catch, I missed it." I will say this loud enough for the catcher and the batter to hear.

What some coaches and players don't seem to realize is that I want to call strikes...gets the ball in play, keeps the game moving and everybody interested

While I think that's an insane over-reaction... let's say you're right. What exactly should catcher say to her coach when you fail to call a strike on a pitch she thought was in the zone so as to not show you up?

The full story...guess I should have added this from the start...
This was a point in the game where Maryland had a comfortable lead and brought in their 3rd pitcher to complete the game. She walked the first two batters on close pitches. The crowd was getting on the blue.

I also should add, this was a pretty demonstrative shrug by the catcher.

I don't know if the umpire cleaned off the plate for this reason, but it sure seemed like it from where I was sitting. I will say she didn't shrug anymore. :D

How about repeating what the coach asked, politely. "Blue, where did that pitch miss?"

I'm not saying I disagree with you mb...I am the umpire, not the play by play announcer. I am not there to say "inside", "low", etc. And I don't think it's showing up the umpire when she shrugs her shoulders if we're talking about 12U, 14U, etc. But 18U and college, and even some 16U and varsity catchers, shrugging their shoulders is a way of saying they didn't agree. If she shrugs, you bet that the coach will then ask you. And that is when you can tell the coach and the catcher where the pitch missed. The first and ONLY time I will do it. If it happens again, I would put an end to it fast. Showing up or not, I'm not going to describe the pitches. If I call a ball, it's NOT a strike. That simple.

It seemed like the only logical explanation to me. Like I said, the plate was clean. That could be seen from where I was sitting. The catcher was nodding her head while he was bent over, so he was definitely saying something to her. That is what I gathered from the situation. I could be wrong.

Thanks. I have been lurking for over 2 years and this thread finally dragged me in. I'm in AA County. I have taken a hiatus from umpiring due to my daughter playing, but I still attend meetings and training sessions in January to get my books and keep up to date. She is a junior in high school this year, so I'll be back on the field in 2013.

I think I answered that question - if s/he doesn't know, s/he should ask. I will answer..."low", "inside", whatever...she can then relay that info to coach.

If it was a strike and I missed it...see above.

Whenever a catcher has a collision or takes a foul ball and I get the impression she is not quite a 100%, I will call time, walk to the front of the plate, accidentally kicking dirt on it and ask her if she is ok, while I am cleaning the plate. I can see no negative aspect or impact on the game by asking the kids if they are ok. This isn't everytime they get bumped, just when I feel they are hiding something. I'm not a babysitter and have no intentions of being one. However, as the plate umpire, I do feel the responsibility of insuring the wellbeing and safety of the kids who are playing a GAME on my field. Nothing wrong with spending 10 seconds or so to check on a kid.

I guess I'm not understanding how she's showing you up by telling coach she doesn't know why it wasn't a strike... but it's perfectly ok for her to show the word that she didn't know why it wasn't a strike by asking you and then relaying. What's not clicking for me is why this is "showing you up".

I grant you that if coach reacted to this information, I could see your point. I just don't think this catcher is doing anything other than answering he coach's question, and not getting why you, personally (and singularly based on the lack of support here), feel this is taboo.

If you read a little closer, you would see that there is support for his position. Not that it should faze him if there wasn't. Everyone else could be dead wrong.

You can call it "insane" if you like, but this is not that uncommon at this level and neither is this umpire's reaction.

LIblueASA covered it pretty well...it's not that she is saying she doesn't know, it's the way it is being said. Shrugging the shoulders is a visible reaction to the coach's question that could be interpreted by anybody watching that she doesn't agree with my call and she is letting eveybody know.

I didn't say that the act of her shrugging her shoulders is showing me up, I said that the act is starting down that path. The quick conversation of her asking where the pitch missed and my replying is heard only between the two of us, nobody knows, she relays the information to her coach, we move on.

The umpire in question that started this part of the discussion chose to react to the shoulder shrug in a very obvious manner. I don't know that I would choose the same path. But, I would at least say something to the catcher to let her know that her actions were inappropriate and needed to cease.

And...thanks for keeping the discussion civil! One of the things I like most about this board!

I meant why " he would not put up with that"; not why you assumed it.

Would you apply the same thing on a close play at third? You call out. Coach believes the runner was safe. He shrugs his shoulders in frustration and gives the 1st base coach a look across the diamond. Is it time to clean 3rd base? And how is that showing you his disagreement less of a visible showing up then when he calls time, walks over to you, says she was on the bag long before the tag and then politely goes back to his position?

This thread has certainly taken a left turn from the original posting.....

A play at third base is a different animal....the play happens, umpire calls it, coach expresses dissatisfaction with the call, umpire deals with that, we move on. We may not have another close play on the bases for several more batters.

We have a pitch to start every play. A catcher shrugging her shoulders in response to her coach could be interpreted as her disagreement with the PU's pitch call and it could lead down the path of attempting to show up the umpire. I think I have said this twice before, so one more time may or may not help make my point. Since we have a pitch to start every play, if the catcher, and/or the coach, starts thinking that the umpires strike zone is terrible, they now have something to complain about almost constantly. The situation can only go downhill from there.

As I stated in my previous post..the umpire in question that started this part of the discussion chose to react to the shoulder shrug in a very obvious manner and deal with it early, if in fact, that was the crux of the conversation.

Frankly, I'm surprised at some of the discussion in this post....I have always been told not to let anyone get too far with questioning the strike zone..whether they are doing it openly or not.

I don't think he would have called time, brushed off a clean plate and had a conversation with the catcher if he was going to put up with it.

Again, this is all just my interpretation of what happened. I could be totally wrong about the whole thing. Maryland is infested with stink bugs right now. Maybe there was one on the plate and he was getting rid of it with his brush. He told the catcher, "Aren't you glad I got that out of your way". Perhaps, that is why she was nodding.

Just what I need!!! With an admirer like that........

Maybe insane was strong... however, I only know one umpire "at this level" that would react this way (and yes, he's an old-school umpire). I can't tell you how many times we (him included) have been told at clinics, meetings, etc that when it's not 100% clear whether we're being "disrespected" or not - to err on the side of ignoring it. This isn't 1990, and we're not getting MLB bucks to be part of the show. Reacting in the way described seems A) inconsistent with the way one might react to players disagreeing with calls elsewhere and B) a bit over the top and unnecessary - of the "I'm in charge here, you will behave as I tell you." variety.)

I hear you, but I guess to my mind there's a huge gulf between a catcher who disagrees with a single call and one who thinks and acts like the umpire's zone is terrible. And potential "could be" disagreement number one (unvocalized, even) is not the place to head it off.

They must have followed you here from softballfans. :D

I know we all strongly defend softball as a different game from baseball (well, most of us do, anyway), but here is one area where the game could benefit from one of the so-called "unwritten rules" regarding catchers and umpires.

The unwritten baseball rule is that when a catcher wants to lobby for a call for his pitcher, he doesn’t turn around to address the umpire or do anything demonstrative that would show up the umpire. For his part, the umpire doesn’t do anything to show up the player either. The interaction between the two goes unnoticed except by the two of them (and possibly the batter). The umpire MAY brush the plate to communicate with the catcher, but to the observer, he would merely be brushing the plate.

Coaches who want a pitch-by-pitch report from the catcher are interfering with this umpire-catcher protocol by imposing themselves into it in a way that requires demonstration. They should know this, also, violates the unwritten rule and not do it. Find some other way to get their information (or, better, trust their pitcher and catcher to deal with it, especially and the level of game in the OP).

This would be, of course, if softball adopted some of the unwritten baseball rules that govern such things. I, for one, think the game would benefit.

Please define "old-school" for me.

Who is telling you these things?

What happened in 1990? I truly don't know.

As to A), it is perfectly consistent with the way one might react to players disagreeing by obviously letting anyone watching know that they think an umpire missed a call.

You may handle these situations as you see fit, but it's often the next official that has to deal with your enabling this behavior.

LOL. Ok - we can agree to disagree. If I'm a shrug enabler, so be it.

Where I went to school... ;)

I think Crowder was refering to the idea our mechanics and behavior are more 'professional' now than 20 years ago.

HOWEVER...there is a apocryphal MLB story from the early 80s along these lines involving Gary Carter when he was with the Expos, and (I believe) Eric Gregg (or possibly Weyer), where Gregg is working the plate, and the Expo manager, who was Gene Mauch at the time, keeps asking where pitches were, and Carter not saying anything - as he should. However Gregg keeps getting funny looks from the opposition batters. In between innings, Gregg's partner at 1B, runs in and tells Gregg that Carter is giving high/low hand signals. Carter is leading off the next inning, and Gregg tells the other C to have his pitcher to bounce the first pitch to Carter. The pitcher does so, and Gregg calls it a strike - causing Carter to almost drop his bat in surprise, asking, "Where was THAT??", whereupon Gregg holds his hand at waist level. End of the hand signals.....:D

Great story... :D

I will hold up play as long as is needed. Usually though in JO a coach will come out if there is a obvious injury......if it is not......I will give the catcher or batter as much time as they need.

Joel