Umpire Gear

[fastpitchfan]

I'm looking for some lightweight gear for 12U fastpitch and I'm considering the following and wondered if anyone had any comments.

Diamond DLG-UMP Lite Shin Guards

All Star FM1500UMP Mask

Honig K2 Fastpitch Elite Chest Protector

DaviShield Chest Protector

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by fastpitchfan

I'm looking for some lightweight gear for 12U fastpitch and I'm considering the following and wondered if anyone had any comments.

Diamond DLG-UMP Lite Shin Guards

All Star FM1500UMP Mask

Honig K2 Fastpitch Elite Chest Protector

DaviShield Chest Protector

Go with this mask.....the All Star is a POS and this Wilson mask is cheaper and much better IMHO.

Wilson Single-Bar Lightweight Umpire Mask

I have both the Honigs K1 and K2, I prefer the K1.

Shin guards are a decent choice. I have the Rawlings Titans which are very similar. I had a pair of All Star double knee shin guards that were quite good, but they got stolen out of my car when I had a two game break to run over and watch a HS Baseball game. Stole my shin guards and one of my masks......left the other mask though.

Joel

[Tru_in_Blu]

Speaking ASA and NFHS, if the umpire wears the hockey-style mask, is a hat required to be worn under it?

Thanx,

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Speaking ASA and NFHS, if the umpire wears the hockey-style mask, is a hat required to be worn under it?

Thanx,

My understanding for ASA only is no, a hat is not required under the hockey-style mask, nor is the umpire required to remove the mask.

That's what I've heard. Don't know how accurate that information is.

I have a traditional mask, so that's not an issue.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

My understanding for ASA only is no, a hat is not required under the hockey-style mask, nor is the umpire required to remove the mask.

That's what I've heard. Don't know how accurate that information is.

I have a traditional mask, so that's not an issue.

Speaking ASA (10-5-C) and NFHS (10-4-2)...a hat is a required part of the uniform for both the plate and base umpire. If the hockey style helmet is worn, you better have a cap on underneath it! I understand that there are these types of masks made that can accomodate the cap.

Disclaimer: for ASA, this applies to championship play, local associations can do as they please.

For NFHS, the state association can choose to waive this requirement.

In my part of the world, we require that both umpires wear the hat in ASA and NFHS.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

Speaking ASA (10-5-C) and NFHS (10-4-2)...a hat is a required part of the uniform for both the plate and base umpire. If the hockey style helmet is worn, you better have a cap on underneath it! I understand that there are these types of masks made that can accomodate the cap.

Disclaimer: for ASA, this applies to championship play, local associations can do as they please.

For NFHS, the state association can choose to waive this requirement.

In my part of the world, we require that both umpires wear the hat in ASA and NFHS.

Andy, I have heard (probably the same source, Emily) about masks that can accommodate hats, but when asked, not one has been named, nor am I familiar with any that do.

That said, there was an interpretation about 2 years ago from KR at ASA saying that umpires that wore a hockey mask did not need to wear a hat beneth it, but was required to have a hat available (back pocket or ball bag, I suppose) to wear whenever the mask was off between innings, between plays, or when talking with a coach. Kind of like the inverse requirement for sunglasses.

[Tru_in_Blu]

The reason I brought this up is because a few weeks ago my partner and I were being evaluated for an NFHS game. He did the plate and had this hockey-style mask w/ little shock absorbers where the cage part meets the helmet part. Our evaluator referred to it as "helmet-cam".

In any case, he got dinged for putting the thing on the ground whenever he had to make an entry on lineup cards. We were told that the umpire's helmet should be under an arm while taking care of these tasks. No way with the "helmet-cam".

Regarding having a hat handy, I can only imagine what it would look like after a game or so. I don't have one, but can't see myself removing the thing, doing SOMETHING with it, putting on a hat from somewhere, recording whatever, putting the hat away, and getting the thing back on.

Seems like more trouble than it's worth, perhaps both in cost and usability.

One guy wore the old-style umpire cap - almost brimless - underneath it. Problem was the hat didn't have the ASA logo on it. I don't know if that would have warranted a demerit at some levels.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Andy, I have heard (probably the same source, Emily) about masks that can accommodate hats, but when asked, not one has been named, nor am I familiar with any that do.

That said, there was an interpretation about 2 years ago from KR at ASA saying that umpires that wore a hockey mask did not need to wear a hat beneth it, but was required to have a hat available (back pocket or ball bag, I suppose) to wear whenever the mask was off between innings, between plays, or when talking with a coach. Kind of like the inverse requirement for sunglasses.

Thanks for the followup, Steve.

Yes, that's what I'd heard as well, but it was through my local association. I didn't want to take it as 100% gospel truth (thus, my disclaimer).

Interesting point on the backup hat, too. I agree it does look better on an umpire if they have to take their mask off.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

The reason I brought this up is because a few weeks ago my partner and I were being evaluated for an NFHS game. He did the plate and had this hockey-style mask w/ little shock absorbers where the cage part meets the helmet part. Our evaluator referred to it as "helmet-cam".

In any case, he got dinged for putting the thing on the ground whenever he had to make an entry on lineup cards. We were told that the umpire's helmet should be under an arm while taking care of these tasks. No way with the "helmet-cam".

Regarding having a hat handy, I can only imagine what it would look like after a game or so. I don't have one, but can't see myself removing the thing, doing SOMETHING with it, putting on a hat from somewhere, recording whatever, putting the hat away, and getting the thing back on.

Seems like more trouble than it's worth, perhaps both in cost and usability.

One guy wore the old-style umpire cap - almost brimless - underneath it. Problem was the hat didn't have the ASA logo on it. I don't know if that would have warranted a demerit at some levels.

Frankly, I am not a fan of the hockey-style masks. Almost everything we are told to wear or not wear is to standardize, to be "uniform"; and that item just isn't a standard. The very few umpires I know that us it are often described by coaches as "you know, the guy with the hockey mask" ......

That said, there is a reason why a hat is a required part of the uniform; umpires simply look unprofessional, out of uniform, incomplete, when standing bare-headed. So, if you want to wear a hockey mask, you may have to so something that is a bit more trouble, like having a hat accessible.

To your last point, I have always considered the one or two stitch beanie to be a joke, not a uniform part; and ASA stopped selling them decades ago (I guess they think umpires shouldn't wear them, either), so there really wouldn't be much chance of having one with ASA. Certainly not one with the newer (last 10 years or so) two tone ASA. But, you also said he was being evaluated for NFHS, so that shouldn't be a black mark.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Frankly, I am not a fan of the hockey-style masks. Almost everything we are told to wear or not wear is to standardize, to be "uniform"; and that item just isn't a standard. The very few umpires I know that us it are often described by coaches as "you know, the guy with the hockey mask" ......

That said, there is a reason why a hat is a required part of the uniform; umpires simply look unprofessional, out of uniform, incomplete, when standing bare-headed. So, if you want to wear a hockey mask, you may have to so something that is a bit more trouble, like having a hat accessible....

I am surprised that the HSM has remained as rare among umpires as it has. It clearly offers superior protection.

Personally, on the "looking professional" front, an umpire who is without a hat only when the helmet is removed doesn't look unprofessional to me; he looks like an umpire who took his helmet off. Now a base umpire without a hat or an PU using a mask without a hat... sure, that looks sloppy or unprofessional, as does a hat sticking out of the back pocket.

If HSM-using umpires ever reach a significant minority, I would expect the requirement of having a hat also to gradually go away.

(FWIW, MLB umpires are apparently not required to wear a hat under their HSM, nor are they required to put one on when they take the helmet off... going by the pictures I see... obviously no first hand access to what MLB does and does not required for their umpires.)

[argodad]

I saw a MLB game a week or two ago in which the Plate Ump was wearing a HSM and an old-style plate coat. Looked very weird.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Kind of like the inverse requirement for sunglasses.

ASB:

Could you please explain this to me. I have not ever heard this expression. Thanks.

MTD, Sr.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

ASB:

Could you please explain this to me. I have not ever heard this expression. Thanks.

MTD, Sr.

He means that while you should put ON a hat when between innings, you should take OFF your sunglasses when talking with a coach or conducting a pre-game conference.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

ASB:

Could you please explain this to me. I have not ever heard this expression. Thanks.

MTD, Sr.

As others have stated:

If you wear sunglasses, it is considered unprofessional and inappropriate to talk at any time to a coach without removing them first. Let the coach see your eyes, as a sign of respect for the position he/she holds. Hiding behind the sunglasses when addressing a coach is a sign of disrespect.

By the same token, it is equally inappropriate to address a coach without a mandatory uniform part; the hat.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I am surprised that the HSM has remained as rare among umpires as it has. It clearly offers superior protection.

Personally, on the "looking professional" front, an umpire who is without a hat only when the helmet is removed doesn't look unprofessional to me; he looks like an umpire who took his helmet off. Now a base umpire without a hat or an PU using a mask without a hat... sure, that looks sloppy or unprofessional, as does a hat sticking out of the back pocket.

If HSM-using umpires ever reach a significant minority, I would expect the requirement of having a hat also to gradually go away.

(FWIW, MLB umpires are apparently not required to wear a hat under their HSM, nor are they required to put one on when they take the helmet off... going by the pictures I see... obviously no first hand access to what MLB does and does not required for their umpires.)

One of the best I have ever worked with, Rick Havercroft from Michigan (ISF FP umpire, now an NCAA conference coordinator in the MidWest), was a huge proponent of the HSM before it was an approved item; in fact, I know Rick personally addressed KR of ASA urging approval, and I believe he was a major factor in getting the approval that now exists in ASA, despite the disapproval of many of the NUS.

That said, KR can approve the iHSM; getting the hat stated as an "optional" uniform item when .... probably requires a majority, since it requires a rule change.