Are base runners always protected on a illegal pitch?
 

Are base runners always protected on a illegal pitch to advance one base? If we have a illegal pitch on a attempted steal are pick off attempt, what would be the appropriate mechanics if the base runner is tagged prior to advancing to the next base.

I see only three scenario's

#1 Runner left early. Violates LBR and dead ball out no pitch (occurs prior to illegal pitch and supercedes

#2 Illegal pitch batter doesn't put ball in play. Dead ball, ball on batter, baserunners advance.

#3 Illegal pitch batter does put ball in play. Pending result of ball in play Offense chooses result of play or ball on batter baserunners advance.

Can't be a pick off play on an illegal pitch because it's a dead ball once catcher has it.

There is a 4th possibility. If there is an illegal pitch prior to the leaving early, both infractions are enforced.

My experience is NSA only, but a assume this would apply universally??

#1 Just semantics, but not LBR violation. Simply leaving early violation.

#3 Coach MAY or MAY NOT have an option. "If the illegal pitch is hit and all runners including the batter-runner , advance one base, the play stands."
* This could lead to a situation where, for example, the D could get a double play and the O would have to live with it. - Is this different in other rule sets?

#3 yes, in NFHS if the batter becomes a batter runner, then they always have an option.

#1, I don't think it's only semantics. A couple months ago we had a discussion where it was pointed out that to violate the leaving early rule one just has to break contact but to violate the LBR one has to actually leave the base. Making it for example legal to lose contact while cleaning one's cleats.

Not sure how you have a double play and all runners advancing at the same time. If the runners are out, then they did not advance......Maybe runners advance then double tag out at third and second?? Uck..ugly play but I guess possible.

How would one define the difference between leaving the base vs. breaking contact with the base?

My question exactly.

You can have 100 ways to advance and then still get out. You have listed one.

The easiest example is the runner standing with one foot on the bag. She lifts up the foot on the bag and bangs it back down to clear the dirt off her cleat. She has lost contact with the base but not left it. Searching for the thread will probably get you more than hearing me recount it.

I don't recall the thread, but I have an opinion.

If you saw that, then you are looking at the wrong thing.

Leaving early on a pitch just isn't a LBR violation; it is leaving early on the pitch. Different rule citation (on the road, cannot cite the specifics).

If this helps.....
ASA....
Runner fails to keep contact w/base...8.7.s LookBackRule...8.7.t

I'll grant you that they are different rules.

However, when does LBR stop applying and failing to keep contact with the base start applying?

Exactly. These two rules have always been redundant (well, one of them, at least). Same infraction, same penalty. No need to say it twice.

Kind of were I was going with my question is, on a IP does the ball become dead on a called ball on the batter or can the base runners attempt a steal in hopes of drawing a bad throw to keep advancing?

NFHS - The coach does not have a choice of the penalty or the play unless the batter does not hit the ball (fair or foul) or otherwise become a base runner.

Ok,
Then on a hit and run (swing and miss), baserunner takes off for second and draws a bad throw form catcher, baserunner advances to third.

Options for the offence:
*Take the results and keep runner on third.
*Take the ball on batter and put runner back on second.

Did the batter become a batter runner in your example?
NO.

No choice, send the runner back to second and award a ball.


NFHS 6-2-2
EXCEPTION: If the pitcher completes the delivery of the ball to the batter and the batter hits the ball fair or foul, or becomes a base runner, the coach of the team at bat shall have the option of the result of the play or the penalty for an illegal pitch. A delayed dead ball will be signaled by the umpire by extending the left arm horizontally.

Thx. I understand the exception now.