When does a partner help out..........

kellerumps · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 11, 2002, 10:57pm

I just finished reading the foul ball/tip discussion. Interesting....Anyway here is my question.

Since we work mainly 3 person, let's assume you are the 1st base umpire with a right handed batter. We have a foul tip that "You see" the catcher trap against their chest protector. The plate ump signals foul tip strike 3....What do you do??

IRISHMAFIA · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 12, 2002, 06:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by kellerumps
Since we work mainly 3 person,

Many parts of the country are struggling to maintain one-umpire games, fight to get two, and somewhere out there you have folks routinely working three-man crews?

Must be nice

Andy · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 12, 2002, 12:31pm

I echo Mike's comment...must be nice!

To answer your question:

In this situation, I think I would call time, beckon my plate umpire out for a private conference and tell him what I saw. It's up to him/her to change the call. Of course, I would only do this is if I was certain that the catcher had trapped the ball.

For Mike - I notice that you dropped the "D" in front of "UIC" in your byline....does this mean that you are the man now in Delaware?

gsf23 · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 12, 2002, 01:33pm

I've had this happen plenty of times when I have been working on the bases and behind the plate. Generally, if I see that a ball is not a foul tip as you describe I will give the foul ball signal and call foul right away which is essentially the same as calling time. To me it just seems easier to kill it right way then to wait for the play to end and try to sort it all out afterward.

IRISHMAFIA · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 12, 2002, 04:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy
I echo Mike's comment...must be nice!

To answer your question:

In this situation, I think I would call time, beckon my plate umpire out for a private conference and tell him what I saw. It's up to him/her to change the call. Of course, I would only do this is if I was certain that the catcher had trapped the ball.

For Mike - I notice that you dropped the "D" in front of "UIC" in your byline....does this mean that you are the man now in Delaware?

That's what they tell me.

Steve M · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 12, 2002, 04:34pm

Here's a mechanic that I've been working on for a few years when I've got the plate - it should help to avoid this situation - on what looks to be a foul tip, before signalling, I will take a look over the catcher's shoulder at glove and ball. If caught, I've got a tip, if not it's a foul.

On the bases, I'll handle it as Andy stated - but I'm going to be very sure before saying anything.

Mike,
Congrats, I think. What'd Bobby do? Does this mean that you're coming to Pa's state clinic now - since Bobby used to?

Most of my games are 2-man, with a very few 1-man thrown in. I'll only see 3-man in playoffs or in D1 ball. It must be nice to have that many umps - or is it that there are that few games?

Steve M

kellerumps · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 12, 2002, 06:21pm

To answer the 3 person questions, we work alot of D1 ball and very little NFHS. Most of the summer tourneys(Mainly 18-U, Men's FP, and Womens Open) that we are asked to work use 3 umpires from the qtr finals on. I would guess about 75-80 percent of the games we call use 3 umpires. We are very lucky as we live in an area that takes Umpireing very seriously and we are very proactive in recruiting and training.

Back to my question....How about this for an answer.

The base umpire does nothing until asked by the plate?

It is the plates call and the coaches have the right on this play to politely ask the plate umpire to ask for help. Kinda like a check swing. So we as baseumpires, just sit tight and when asked.....Tell them what we saw.

Del-Blue · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 13, 2002, 07:01am

I think I have to jump in now. Yo Mike congrats.

Back to the question. I think the base umpire or umpires IF they see the trap have to step in.

What do you do as a base ump if there is a ball that comes off the bat and hits the batter while still in the box, Don't you call foul ball if the plate ump doesn't see it???? I think the trap on the foul tip(foul ball) is the same.If I see a foul (TIP) ball I will call a dead ball right away, same as if it hit the batter.

IRISHMAFIA · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 13, 2002, 07:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve M

Mike,
Congrats, I think. What'd Bobby do? Does this mean that you're coming to Pa's state clinic now - since Bobby used to?

Steve M

Thanks. It depends on my schedule. For some reason, there has always been a conflict with the clinic at State College.

kellerumps · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 13, 2002, 08:28pm

Del-Blue very valid point. My final question I guess would be this.....

Is this play more like a check-swing where we wait OR more like a play where the ball hits the batter. I can see both sides of this argument and could honestly live with either outcome.

I will ask that question this spring at both the ASA and NCAA umpire meetings.

Thanks