From another forum, coach putting spit on ball

NCASAUmp

Simple solution: dump the coach. He, of all people, should know better than to teach his players to do this.

KJUmp

NCASAUmp wrote
Simple solution: dump the coach. He, of all people, should know better than to teach his players to do this.

Dump the coach on what grounds? Based on the sitch in the OP, what ASA rule would support an ejection of the coach?

IRISHMAFIA

You guys are worse than the coaches. GMAFB!

This is zippo, zero, nada, zilch, nil, nothing, not a damn thing. I do this to every ball I touch. You know how much I like baseball, but just why do you think umpires rub down a certain number of balls with Delaware River mud before every game?

topper

IRISHMAFIA wrote
You guys are worse than the coaches. GMAFB!

This is zippo, zero, nada, zilch, nil, nothing, not a damn thing. I do this to every ball I touch. You know how much I like baseball, but just why do you think umpires rub down a certain number of balls with Delaware River mud before every game?

They indeed do - before the game.

Are you saying you would allow a coach to put anything on the ball between innings based on what's done prior to the game? Where do you draw the line? Most importantly, please site the supporting rule as well.

NCASAUmp

KJUmp wrote
Dump the coach on what grounds? Based on the sitch in the OP, what ASA rule would support an ejection of the coach?

USC. If the players aren't allowed to do it, why would the coach ever be?

I hold the coach to higher standards than I do the players.

IRISHMAFIA wrote
You guys are worse than the coaches. GMAFB!

This is zippo, zero, nada, zilch, nil, nothing, not a damn thing. I do this to every ball I touch. You know how much I like baseball, but just why do you think umpires rub down a certain number of balls with Delaware River mud before every game?

Yes, but you're the one doing it, not the coach. Does the coach hand it back to you for you to verify what's left on the ball?

Do I think the simple act of spitting on the ball really gives the pitcher much advantage? Nah, not really, but then why do we have a rule against the players doing it?

NCASAUmp

Other solution: go to pitcher's plate, ask for the ball from the coach, pull him/her aside and tell them plain and simple: "need me to scuff up the ball? I'll do it for you. Spit on the ball again, and it's sayonara. Thanks, Coach."

IRISHMAFIA

topper wrote
They indeed do - before the game.

Are you saying you would allow a coach to put anything on the ball between innings based on what's done prior to the game? Where do you draw the line? Most importantly, please site the supporting rule as well.

Is that what I said and, BTW, the coach didn't put anything on the ball, did he?

BTW, YOU cite the rule forbidding the coach from doing what was described in the OP.

Stu Clary

Why is the coach handling the ball?

KJUmp

IRISHMAFIA wrote
Is that what I said and, BTW, the coach didn't put anything on the ball, did he?

BTW, YOU cite the rule forbidding the coach from doing what was described in the OP.

So if a situation called for it, we would be OK using 6.6.A. with a coach if they were in some manner applying a foreign substance to the ball?

IRISHMAFIA

KJUmp wrote
So if a situation called for it, we would be OK using 6.6.A. with a coach if they were in some manner applying a foreign substance to the ball?

Don't know, would you?

Even if you thought you were, I believe this to be over-officiating at its extreme. This is one of those things that some umpire gets talked into enforcing by a coach because "rules are rules" and we end up with another ridiculous thread about TWPs.

Think about it. A coach moistens HIS HANDS (not the ball), picks up a ball and rubs it down, hands the ball to the pitcher who then throws five warm-up pitches to the catcher who is now handling the ball with her glove and throwing hand as many times as their are pitches, then throws the ball to F4 who throws the ball to F6 who throws the ball to F....well, you get the point.

So, after this ball has been thrown and caught in a glove 13 times, just what is going to happen on the first pitch that was effected by the coach spitting on his/her hands?

Oh, here it comes........EVEN IF the pitcher threw no warm-up pitches, the coach's actions would still would not affect the pitch.

Go ahead, make that call. What you do with the boogers you find is your business. I know it will not be mine.

topper

Originally Posted by topper
They indeed do - before the game.

Are you saying you would allow a coach to put anything on the ball between innings based on what's done prior to the game? Where do you draw the line? Most importantly, please cite the supporting rule as well.

IRISHMAFIA wrote
Is that what I said and, BTW, the coach didn't put anything on the ball, did he?

BTW, YOU cite the rule forbidding the coach from doing what was described in the OP.

No, but it is implied. I'll re-word my question: Would you allow a coach to put anything on their hands and then rub up the ball between innings?

As for citing the rule, college rules don't exclude non-playing personel from their wording while ASA does allow for ruling on issues not specifically covered in the rules. Dave's solution works for me.

KJUmp

IRISHMAFIA wrote
Don't know, would you?

Even if you thought you were, I believe this to be over-officiating at its extreme. This is one of those things that some umpire gets talked into enforcing by a coach because "rules are rules" and we end up with another ridiculous thread about TWPs.

Think about it. A coach moistens HIS HANDS (not the ball), picks up a ball and rubs it down, hands the ball to the pitcher who then throws five warm-up pitches to the catcher who is now handling the ball with her glove and throwing hand as many times as their are pitches, then throws the ball to F4 who throws the ball to F6 who throws the ball to F....well, you get the point.

So, after this ball has been thrown and caught in a glove 13 times, just what is going to happen on the first pitch that was effected by the coach spitting on his/her hands?

Oh, here it comes........EVEN IF the pitcher threw no warm-up pitches, the coach's actions would still would not affect the pitch.

Go ahead, make that call. What you do with the boogers you find is your business. I know it will not be mine.

I'm not looking to be an OOO or pick a booger on the field. I'm just trying to get clear on how ASA would want the sitch in the OP handled should it arise and, understand the correct application/interpretation of 6.6.A.
If ASA sees it as non issue or a violation, then it's not a booger I'll pick if I happened to see a DC doing it. If an OC should observe it and complain about the DC I now know what to tell him.

MD Longhorn

I still question why you would WANT to make a point of calling this?

NCASAUmp

mbcrowder wrote
I still question why you would WANT to make a point of calling this?

Wanting to do something and having to do something do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.

What if the coach actually does put something besides spit on the ball? Are we going to stick with the technicality of "this rule only applies to players, not coaches?"

Either the spit is a foreign substance or it isn't.

topper

mbcrowder wrote
I still question why you would WANT to make a point of calling this?

Because it's an IP in college and a coach putting a foreign substance on the ball at other levels needs to be addressed.

MD Longhorn

I'm wondering about the want. There is no have. You don't HAVE to rule this illegal, because it's not.

But 2 or 3 of you obviously WANT to - either by warping one rule improperly to fit what you want into it,or by using the God rule unnecessarily. My question is... "Why?"

MD Longhorn

topper wrote
Because it's an IP in college

Irrelevant.

and a coach putting a foreign substance on the ball at other levels needs to be addressed.

I'll say it again... WHY?

topper

mbcrowder wrote
Irrelevant.

What in the OP makes it irrelevant? It doesn't mention the level of ball.

mbcrowder wrote
I'll say it again... WHY?

Where to you draw the line Mike? (either Mike BTW) If not spit then what would make you address it and what rule would you cite then?

IRISHMAFIA

topper wrote
No, but it is implied. I'll re-word my question: Would you allow a coach to put anything on their hands and then rub up the ball between innings?

As for citing the rule, college rules don't exclude non-playing personel from their wording while ASA does allow for ruling on issues not specifically covered in the rules. Dave's solution works for me.

Not so. ASA specifically notes who (a defensive player) many not apply a "foreign substance" to the ball. Therefore, the god rule does not apply.

And, again, I did not say anything, I specifically addressed the situation offered in the OP.

But even if you want to stop the coach, the book does not give you an avenue to use the foreign substance rule. Want to dump him for USC, knock yourself out. However, once the pitcher has possession of the ball, now you have a violation.

Think about it. In ASA, when a coach screams an appeal from the dugout, do you not wait until a fielder repeats it or presents you with the appeal?

darkside

You have nothing. You cannot call this or make up a call just because you don't like it. We are here to enforce the rules as written, not make them up to our liking. If you don't like the wording, put in a change. Personally, I don't see an epidemic of coaches doing this to require a rule change. I could also care less if they spit on the ball and rubbed it in. Doing this will not change the movement of the ball.