Why do some make it such a BIG deal?
 

I have played the game. I have been lucky to officiate the game. At many levels. I am lucky to have a daughter that loves to play the game. And be good at it (this is a "A" level travel team she is playing on, not your local rec team) I am lucky enough to have coached the game. Be damned the dark side. The light side. Or whatever side. It's still fun being involved in the game so many love. But why do some umpires make details that have NOTHING to do with the game a part of it?

Daughter playing in fall tournament. I am doing score book for team. Dugouts totally inclosed with fence. Door to dugout faces away from plate area. And towards the outfield. Cement floor for dugout. Third coach while team is on offense is standing in the doorway of dugout making sure proper batter is at bat, proper batter is in ondeck circle, bats from previous batter is gotten out of the field of play. TIME !!!! calls the home plate umpire in the middle of the at bat....COACH !!!! BOTH FEET ON THE CEMENT OR YOU VISIT THE PARKING LOT !!! Huh ?!?!??! We all look around???? We finally figure out what he is talking about and simply cannot believe it ? Now this is the same umpire that has no idea what a "leap" is but doggone it the coach will sure keep both feet on the cement now !!!!! After the inning is over and a kind apolgy was given (not wanting to get on the bad side of the umpire, for some stupid thing he obviouly worries far too much about) He makes the claim that we're lucky (we were so blessed to have this umpire we figured out at this point) he doesn't make us close the gate to the dugout between each batter because it's in the rules....still can't find that one in the book.

And we wonder why some umpire simply cannot get the respect they believe they should have ????????

Why do some coaches think that some rules don't apply to them? Why do some coaches feel they can pick and choose which rules are important and which aren't?

Get off the dang field. If I let you stand out there and the ball hits you, it's my fault.

Yeah, it's a rule and we are expected to enforce it.

But how many of us here would enforce it by making a big scene, stopping the game in the middle of an at-bat and screaming a threat of ejection across the field?

I'll give the guy credit for enforcing the rule. I think that his method of enforcing it stinks. And his later explanation stinks even more. Why go to the trouble of explaining this rule, then state that you're going to ignore another rule in the process?

Yes, good point. I agree his threatening to toss was unnecessary.

Quick question: Was this a newer umpire?

I've found that umpires who have easy trigger fingers are usually new to the game. They're afraid of having their authority challenged and afraid of having their "freshman status" discovered, so they overcompensate.

Well, some of this would depend on what type of problems there may has been and if there was a certain person that has been a problem.

Doesn't sound like the issue here, but there are situations where an umpire may have to take what seems to be over-officious actions.

Maybe, but even if there's a player or coach who has that "reputation," there are better ways to handle it than to come out barking.

I'll at least smile before chomping his a$$ off.

Questions Answered.
 

Quick question: Was this a newer umpire?....No

Yeah, it's a rule and we are expected to enforce it.....May I ask what rule you are refering to? Depending on which rule you may have been refering to...enforcement of a a rule was never not expected. And chances are (again depending on your reference) any rule would work AGAINST that particular coach and team. Thus the umpire gets a free out and isn't that what some umpires claim to be working for? Outs? Why take away an oppurtunity of a out on someone elses stupidity (aka...the coach)

Why do some coaches think that some rules don't apply to them?...Again what rule?

I'm still looking for the written rule that says a gate to the dugout has to be closed???

Get off the dang field. If I let you stand out there and the ball hits you, it's my fault. ...Again. Why do you care? I understand a small innocent reminder to the coach, but why the BIG SHOW. How is it your fault? I got a speeding ticket last week. There was a sign and everything on the road. I tried to call the state highway dept to tell them it was their fault but they still refused to pay the ticket. Right before they started laughing at me and hung up the phone.

Honestly...I appreciate the answers and thoughts. It still does not explain why the small things are exploided to such a degree and yet items like illegal pitches are ignored. Power trip by the umpire....probally. Which is extremely important in front of 12 year olds.....gotta show them who the boss is.

Given that the events happened as you state, I would agree that the umpire made a way bigger show of it than necessary. This is not something you would generally threaten an ejection over unless there is a LOT of other things going on in this game. If you've not taken this incident out of context by removing other problems from the discussion, PU probably should have simply said, "Coach, stay in the dugout please".

That said - are you telling me you aren't aware of a rule that tells you how many coaches can be on the field and where they can be? Really? You said you had umpired. I find this very hard to believe. You think you can just mill around wherever you want? While it sounds like PU's manner was way off - he was right in one thing... GET OFF THE DANG FIELD.

(And edited to add... what does have to do with ANYTHING?

Overzealous, Absolutley

Previous actions...Nothing, quiet game. Nothing had even been said about the other teams pitcher leaping on her change-up EVERY time. Have learned that really doesn't get you anywhere. So why worry about it. Like it's been said so many times here on the forum. Umpires are not there to "teach" the coaches and the umpires are not ther to "coach" the players. So I think it's only fair that coaches not "teach" the umpires. When I umpire, I umpire. When I'm at the field with my daughter. I'm a father. I don't like it when I umpire and fans try to teach me so when a fan I don't teach them.

Yes I am aware of the # of coaches on the field. But again any ruling works against us. Why make a problem. The problems will find themselves quick enough.

This particular coach...because of the field design and the dugout design...was in no way a part of the playing field. Again I undewrstand the method of warning. But you cannot dispute that many times umpires create their own headaches.

A statment was made...If I let you stand out there and the ball hits you, it's my fault

How is this YOUR fault in any way shape or form. I was comparing the state having put speeding signs up to state a rule. A rule that I was well aware of. Yet when I called to tell them it was their fault I was speeding I was given no mercy...still had to pay the ticket. Is the writer stating that if we don't tell the coach of a rule...which he or she is breaking....we, the umpire, are to take that into consideration when enforcing the rule? We let it happen so don't enforce?

Still not getting your analogy. I'm really not understanding why you feel that the umpire needs to decide that some rules don't apply because "any ruling works against us" That really has nothing to do with anything, and as an umpire you should know that.

Let me ask it this way. Is your team getting an advantage by having the coach standing where he was?

If yes - then allowing him to be there is disadvantaging the other team.
If no - then why would it bother you or him to be told to comply with the rule?

As umpires, we aren't there to decide which rules to enforce. We are there to enforce the rules. While I disapprove of the manner in which this umpire enforced this rule, he was absolutely right in enforcing it.

Because of liability. People do stupid things all the time, and sometimes they sue. And win. Regardless of their stupidity.

From the 2010 NFHS Rules Book:
RULE 3 SECTION 6 Art. 6

Only the batter, runner(s), on deck batter, coaches in the coach's box, bat/ball shaggers or one of the nine players on defense are permitted to be outside the designated dugout/bench or designated warmup areas.

I don't have my current NSA rules book but this is from a previous year:

Sec.16:
A member of the team at bat who takes their place in the coach's box to direct his/her players in running the bases. Two coaches are allowed, one positioned at first base and one positioned at third base. The defensive coaches/manager must remain inside the dugout, as their normal position, when their team is playing defense.

Failure to obay this rule, after a warning is issued, will result in the coach/manager being ejected.

My NCAA, ASA, and PONY rules book are in my car, but they have similiar rules.

What in the hell are you talking about? Where did you get the idea that AN OUT could be accessed against a team for violating this rule?

You already got a couple of answers as to "what rule" was being enforced. You didn't say what sanctioning body you were playing for, but I will say that every one of the half-dozen associations I've worked games for (in baseball and softball) have some version this same rule. Just for good measure, here is the ASA rule:

(5-12)Dugout Conduct: Coaches, players, substitutes and other bench personnel shall not be outside the designated bench, dugout/team area except when the rule allows it or it is justified by the umpire. EFFECT: The first offense is a team warning. Any repeat offense shall result in the ejection of that team member.

You're right.....
 

.....Why make a big deal about it?
This particualr umpire gives you an order (that may be picky or may not, but he is correct), so just do it and shut up...

With all the experience you claim, havent you realized that there are all kinds of umpire personalities?
The "threat" may havebeen over the top.... but technically, the request was not wrong....

Why make a big deal of it?

Take a step back and play the game..

This all boils down to game management.

Some umpires are better at it than others.
Some coaches are better at it than others.

If you are a coach and get a horse's patootie for an umpire, just grit and bear it. It's going to happen.

If you are a umpire and get a horse's patootie for a coach, just grit and bear it. It's going to happen.

But in the end, the umpire is the ultimate authority on the field and is responsible for keeping control of the game.

And if coach shows his butt, he will eventually be in the parking lot.

If I were a coach in that situation, I would have either step onto the cement and then stood on one foot, or layed on my belly in the dirt with my body in live ball area and both my feet on the cement.

With an ump like this I would not want to be on the field anyway and would just as soon he has to put in the extra effort of having to write up the ejection report and being ridiculed by his association for his overzealous way of handling what he thought was an issue.

I wish that were always true, but it isn't. There are coaches and players who intentionally push umpires to the limit thinking it makes it look like they are in control.

Problem is when an umpire finally takes the action that should have been taken games before, the umpire is perceived as the bad guy.

Anyone ever work field #4 in OKC? The dugouts are big enough to park a Ford F150 and still have room form a 25-man roster to sit comfortably. Granted, there is a load of foul territory on that field, but it only takes one play or throw to cause all hell to break loose.

Probably not as much today, but with some of the recently retired UICs, :rolleyes: you keep them in the dugout or you are not going to be working on Sunday (or whatever the last day of the tournament is being held). After 3 innings, an umpire stopped the game and walked over to the coach and his sponsor to get the point across. Wasn't a problem from there on out, but the umpire took a load of crap from the players because they believe he was trying to show them up.

Each and every umpire has his/her own method of game management. What works for you may or may not work for me.

But I don't think an umpire needs to come out with guns blazing right off the bat. Screaming only shows a lack of self-control and doesn't inspire confidence or respect. It sets a bad tone for the rest of the game. There's no need for it, and it's unbecoming of an umpire.

[QUOTE=HugoTafurst;694906].....Why make a big deal about it?
This particualr umpire gives you an order (that may be picky or may not, but he is correct), so just do it and shut up...

A) Might have been the way he gave the "order" ?????
B) Never said we did'nt do it.
C) I don't appreciate beng told to "shut up" by anyone.

D) One has to wonder if your demeaner is one of "control"? Perhaps you walk onto the field with the attitude of "I am god the umpire, I shall run this game. You, coach, should feel special that I let you stay" ?. Your response here opens the possibility of that thought process.

Good umpires "manage" a game. They don't "run" the game

...know the rules regarding dugout conduct. Thanks for the pointers. It means so much coming from someone as knowledgeable as you. :rolleyes:

I am wondering if you are upset about being asked to get back in the dugout realizing that you are in the wrong and now engaging in cognitive dissonance by dealing with the umps attitude.

I hope in the future you have understood the message and not the messenger and will stay off the field.

I can not understand why coaches think they should be on the field. I am convinced they are also the ones who think it is ok to violate other rules cause it is just an inconvenience to me and well, they should not apply to me cause, you know, my ... does not stink and I am special. WTF?

I believe it is because some believe they are part of the game.