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Big East 1st Base Ump
Calling illegal pitches big time. In the DePaul/Syracuse game. Has he already gone way beyond reasonable NCAA standards and taken the game away from the Cuse?
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BTW, how can JK taken a game away from SU when they won the game? Just couldn't resist taking a shot at an umpire even though that crew is a very good and have more championship (NCAA, ASA & ISF) than you could possibly imagine. |
Another bad ump at first base
This bogus ump called 11 illegal pitches and obviously didn't see the catch that triggered the game ending double play. After standing there looking for help for 20 seconds she decided to call the out on the catch. How embarrassing for a crew that somebody seems to like. This crew should spend the rest of their senior years in T-ball.
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I watched the finals. While the center field camera angle is worthless. If the blues called 11 IPs, I think they could have called 30 more. (from that CF cam angle) I just could not tell that much a difference between what was considered legal and illegal, but the Syracuse pitcher was catching air alot. imo
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And you think they got the assignment because someone liked them? Just how long are you going to insist on displaying your ignorance and disdain for the game of softball? |
Agree, the 'Cuse pitcher was leaping every. single. time. She's lucky the U1 didn't call 6 IP's in a row at the beginning of the game until the pitcher was removed.
And another thing... I don't do NCAA, but isn't the mechanic that the PU call the catch? How on earth would the U1 call the catch from BEHIND F3? EdJW, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. |
IM, the umpire's name is Linda
But I'll take your word for it. Linda is a guy, if you say so. Too bad for him to have to go through life named Linda.
Regarding the assertion that HP umpire should have called the second out. What took him so long? Trying to take the game away from Syracuse, just like he tried yesterday at first base? Regarding lots of air under the Cuse pitcher, LOL. She pitchers with a very short leap and drag. With her pivot foot down. No Cat Osterman! Didn't the NCAA tell the umpires to back off following the early season disaster with all the bogus illegal pitch calls? |
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Late a memo went out empasising that illegal pitches are illegal and should always be called, but in determining illegal pitches think in terms of, "if not illegal, the pitch is legal" A subtle way of looking at it, but I think I understood the emphasis. I didn't see the Friday or Saturday Big E games being referred to, but from what I am hearing here and heard on the phone this morning, they were no brainers.. |
Standard non-response
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The game of initial reference was the dePaul/Syracuse game on Friday. Linda was on 3B and you were complaining about the 1B umpire who was John K. Nice try that runs your regular path of false data because you would rather make an *** of yourself than actually demonstrate any sense. Quote:
Yeah, you are right. Rush Limbaugh made a pact with all the umpires assigned the Big East tournament as retaliation for losing his position at ESPN due to comments made concerning SU alum Donovan McNabb. Yeah, that must be it, a conspiracty against SU. Don't worry, Ed, your suffering will be short-lived. Quote:
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How can they be bogus? You just stated, quite clearly, that the pitcher leaps. Don't you ever tire of being wrong? |
Leap and drap is legal
Just in case you've forgotten the rules, leap and drag is legal.
Regarding Linda, are you now saying she's not a guy. If you followed the tread, you would have realized the continuation to the final game. Regarding your damnation of Syracuse pitching, the season stats for the Cuse pitcher are 13 IPs in 184.1 innings. All these innings called by NCAA umpires. It's not reasonable to believe that all of these umpires got it wrong all season long. It's the umpires at the BE tournament who are way out of line. |
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From NCAA 2010-2011 Softball Rules: 1.73 Leap (Pitcher) An illegal act in which the pitcher becomes airborne on her initial movement and push from the pitcher’s plate. 10.4.4 the ground.No leaping is allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the initial drive from the pitcher’s plate. The pivot foot must slide/drag on Quote:
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BTW, I wouldn't doubt these umpires will have a longer post-season than the Orangemen. Well, at least you are consistent. |
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Are we both using the NCAA definition? Something that in 2008 (the only version I have that I can cut and paste) was along the lines of: "An illegal act in which the pitcher becomes airborne on her initial movement and push from the pitcher’s plate." "10.4.4.1 No leaping is allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the initial drive from the pitcher’s plate. The rear foot must slide/drag on the ground." edited to add) 10 minutes behind Irish - one of these days I'll catch up. |
She had 13 illegal pitches in the championship game with Louisville.
The Univ. of Flordia pitcher generally receives about 7 per game. With this increased emphasis from the college level of calling illegal pitches, I hope that the calling illegal pitches will now filter down to the high school level. I just saw the Ohio state high school championship games of I and II. Both the loosing pitchers had many illegal pitches and none were called. We all need to increase our awareness concerning IP. |
Leap and drag is legal by 10.4.4
Leap and drag is the term long used to describe a moving forward from the pitcher's plate while dragging the pivot foot. I'm surprised you don't know this. But, perhaps you do know this and are just playing word games.
BTW, another BE coach has gone on record that the umpires were outrageous with the blatant IP calls. Also, please provide the NCAA link showing that these umps called just 3 IPs the entire season. |
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And this is nothing new. The coaches were the ones complaining about the lack of IPs called. The NCAA softball program is coach-driven, so none of them really have a valid complaint for an umpire doing the job for which they were hired. Quote:
The Big East uses BK (balk) instead of ILP (NCAA designation for an Illegal Pitch). |
Leap and Drap phrase used in FED rules for years
The FED rules for years described a legal pitch using the wording leap and drag to describe a legal pitch where the pitcher pushes off (leap) from the plate while maintaining foot contact with the ground (and drag). So are you now calling FED stupid.
Interesting to see that you cannot support your statement that this umpire crew called just 3 illegal pitches over the entire season. And BTW, Syracuse will go farther in the NCAAs this year than your Blue Hens will go in the next ten years. |
[QUOTE=EdJW;677090]Leap and drag is the term long used to describe a moving forward from the pitcher's plate while dragging the pivot foot. I'm surprised you don't know this. But, perhaps you do know this and are just playing word games.
(snip)QUOTE] I wasn't aware NFHS is using that expression. But be that as it may, are you saying that: 1) It IS legal for an NCAA pitcher to have both feet off the ground at the same time? 2) The pitcher wasn't leaping? |
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toe down
when pushing off the rubber, most umps will not inject themselves in the game as long as the toe of the pitcher is down. if this call is totally enforced 90 percent of all college pitchers are going to be called illegal and the game is going to be about umps not players.
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I love people who "think" the umpire is trying to make the game about themselves. Here's a question. Why? Are they going to get better and/or more assignments? No. Are they going to have their picture plastered across the sports section in a positive manner? No. Are they going to get a better job or become extremely popular? No. What an umpire working college ball is going to get by not doing their job is a load of HS games the following year because the assigner will not invite them back the next year. |
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1.73 Leap (Pitcher) An illegal act in which the pitcher becomes airborne on her initial movement and push from the pitcher’s plate. It isn't word games to be precise when dealing with rules enforcement and interpretation. In fact, a lack of precision usually indicates poor knowledge of the rules. from the letter by Dee Abrahamson concerning illegal pitch calling: Specifically, umpires are asked to take the approach that a pitch is legal until the pitcher proves otherwise by engaging in any movement not in compliance with the pitching rules. Again, umpires need to enforce the pitching rules and yet, give pitchers the benefit of the doubt if there is any question of legality. In a game at this level I doubt that the umpires did not "give pitchers the benefit of the doubt" and that each illegal pitch was called because the umpire specifically saw a violation. |
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Big East stats show that she led the conference in IP's this season (13). Syracuse as a team led big East in IP's for the season with 16; followed by St.John's (12) and Louisville (11). FYI....the 1st base umpire who you feel doesn't know what an NCAA IP looks like, worked both the Regionals & SuperRegionals last year, and the WCWS in 2006&2007. |
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There were a total of 2 IP's called in the Louisville/Syracuse game. The same Syracuse pitcher (Caira) who had 3 called on the in the DePaul game. |
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Another point of interest is that NCAA boxscores do not accurate track ALL illegal pitch calls. Since they use a standardized stats program that is based on baseball (modified just slightly to grasp the nuances of DP/FLEX versus the baseball DH rule), they only track cases where runners advance, and then only to explain the advance. That is why they still use BK (balk) in the box scores.
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Of course, why would such a large and statistically-heavy organization not have the proper programs? The NCAA scoring scheme uses ILP, not BK as their given indicator. Programming something to accommodate their game cannot be that difficult or expensive. Dave and Chuck could probably give us better insight to that point. I guess I should be shamed for using "official" data in my discussion, so, Ed, you must be right concerning the number. However, I'd be willing to bet the ratio of ILPs and BKs are relatively the same. And, again, a leap IS an illegal pitch and your pitcher knows it, as does the coach. As noted elsewhere, the argument since Day One has not been legal versus illegal, but the fact they are being called. And I will remain behind these umpires, I know they are good and have all the confidence in the world on their performance. |
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I do not concern myself with what announcers say. Most of the time they are wrong, or at the least, not 100% accurate in what they are saying. If I'm incorrect, then the official NCAA box score for the game is incorrect also. Go to the Big East Conference website and check the box scores for both games yourself. Like Irish, I think that the box score would be pretty accurate. As he said, "this IS the NCAA." An I'd like to add, we are talking the conference tournament. I would suspect that they have more than the usual compliment of stats people on hand than they would at a regular season game. AtlUmpSteve, provides information on how the stat is tracked/recorded that I was not aware of. Could there be a difference of 8 IP'S? Well after reading his post, yes, I guess there could. However, I just find it odd, that because you "counted 9", that's correct. I cite the official box score (as did Irish) to support my post, and I'm "definitely wrong." |
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As much as I think EdJW is full of baloney, I wanted to make sure we were all on the same page. |
Trolling, trolling, trolling,
(sung to the tune of Rawhide) |
The IP situation in NCAA has been a big topic this year. I have been in many discussions about this the last two years. The problem, as far as the umpires are concerned, is one of consistency.....too many umpires will not make the illegal call and a FEW fail to give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher. If, and that is a huge "IF", all umpires could call it the same way we would not hear announcers give us a bad rap and people like Ed would stop ranting about things they know nothing about. However, all umpires are never going to call it alike.
It is my opinion that the rule should be changed. Back the pitcher up two to four feet and allow her to do most anything with an under hand motion. We certainly don't need any more lines on the field and getting rid of these illigal calls would be good for the game and certainly be good for the people who try their best to call the game the way the coaches write the rules. |
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At what point is the NCAA or some organization going to spend 1000 bucks on a good camera, go out and shoot pitchers, send it to someone officail, get an answer, post it on some official board so all umps can see what an illegal pitch is from said pitcher. Then all should call it when there memory sees the illegal pitch.
I know it is not professional sports but it is time that we improve on accuracy of calling ips. The camera, imo, is a helpful tool. The nba provides video breakdowns to all of its officials so they can see and get it into their memory reflex what is illegal (read violation). Hell the public can go online and see what they get. Video, video and more video. there should be a plethora of video on pitchers. time to use technology to our advantage. Dave, what is the hold up?:) of course, this does not apply to all umps. you guys can figure out to move this hijack to a new thread, if you do not mind. ron |
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Are you using consistency to mean accuracy?.. Gotta have accuracy first and then be consistent in being accurate. aka no my strike zones,call the strike zone in the book. same goes for IP. |
Are you using consistency to mean accuracy?.. Gotta have accuracy first and then be consistent in being accurate. aka no my strike zones,call the strike zone in the book. same goes for IP.
No. I mean that some will call the I P and some won't...and some don't know legal from iilegal. I am not talking about the TOP officials in NCAA, ASA, Fed. or any others but not all games get the top umpires. All I am saying is that the pitching rule, as now written, will never be called exactly the same by all officials..... for various reasons. Over the broad spectrum of umpires do you think all will ever call the I P the same or, as you suggest, the same strike zone? That would be great but I don't see it happening. |
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