again and again
 

Batter swings at a pitch, hitting it first with her fingers around the bat, THEN with the bat near her fingers.

Apparently, there are some umps that do not know the correct call. :eek:
Do you?

Dead ball strike.

Assuming your eyes are good enough to actually be able to distinguish that.

The old "hands are part of the bat" argument only come up in one of my games last year (though it did rear its ugly head on internet discussion boards and in casual conversation).

And that one time was a surprise. This was a varsity baseball game with one of the better teams in the area coached by a guy that's been around forever. The coach actually argued this just short of the point of ejection before calming down. But he did assure me that he would be contacting our state high school athletic association to inform them that their umpires were not interpreting the rule correctly and that I should be expecting an email from them to confirm the error of my ways.

After the game I jotted down my name, email address and state I.D. number for him and asked him to make sure to include that in his report.

Funny thing- it's been almost a year and I still haven't heard anything back...

What really throws people for a loop is when the batter hits the ball twice so fast that all you hear is a quick "TAPTAP!" People tend to look at you funny when you're killing the play and calling for a foul ball that went right up the middle. :eek:

Ok, it's been a while since I umped and last year I did coach pitch so this rule was moot, but tell me if I am right. If the batter did not swing and the hands were not in the strike zone and the batter made an attempt to get out of the way, hit by pitch. But since this batter swung, dead ball and strike called. Same call if the hands were in the strike zone,

Yes.

Look at it this way.

Anytime the ball touches the batter's body or uniform it is a dead ball.

Now you identify any action by the batter and apply any rule which may apply. If there was an attempt to hit the ball, it is a strike. If there was no attempt to hit the ball, it wasn't a strike unless......

If the ball was in the strike zone, it is a strike. If not, it was a HBP.

No matter what else happens, there can be no play on the BR (since there isn't one), nor any runners (since the ball was dead). Other than what is posted above, there are no other "what ifs" to address.

The reason I posted this is that another umpire :o allowed a fair ball and afterward said that "her hands are part of the bat when she swings". :eek:

Come on....a newbie not knowing this, I can understand, maybe. But a vet??
We're talking umpiring 101 here no matter what rule set, or for that matter, what type of game, (it's the same for baseball).
Irish's reply should for be required reading for any new umpire starting out. Read it, memorize it, never forget it, and rely on it anytime you find yourself in a "ball hits the batter's hands" situations.

"If no attempt is made to avoid being hit or there is an obvious attempt to get hit by the pitch, the batter will not be awarded first base unless it is ball four." FED 8-1-2-b, Penalty 1; ASA 8-1-F(?). See also FED 7-3-2 ("A batter shall not permit a pitched ball to touch her. . . . The batter remains at bat (pitch is a ball or strike)".

The "no attempt" is pretty unusual, especially with a high-velocity pitcher with movement on the ball, but it happens sometimes with a lobber and a batter who acts like she was coached to take one for the team. And sometimes you'll see a batter turn a bit and stick a hip into the path of an inside pitch. But if you call it, be ready to defend it.

So if this is a third strike, is she out or is it considered a foul ball?

Dude, think about that question. How can there be a foul ball when 1) the ball didn't touch the bat, 2) the ball is dead when it hits the body, 3) there is no play, can be no play, and the ball is not in play?

It is a strike. Period. Add one to the count; if there were two, there now is three.

Scroll back up a bit a read IrishMike's reply to the OP.

OK I got it...was a little confused by NCASAUmp's post:

I'm not a moron (least I don't think so)...just asking for clarification.

If the bat hit the ball first and then it hit the batter's hands, you have a batted ball that hits the batter while the batter is still in the batter's box. Foul ball (ASA Rule 1-FOUL BALL-F), even if the ball "went right up the middle".

When the batter hits the ball twice with the bat, it's a foul ball.

Am I the only one who has ever called it?

No, I've had the batter hit the bat twice on the same swing. Not the hands. It's in fairly rapid succession.

I've had it happen and called it a couple of times (out of the thousands of batted balls I've seen).

It seems to happen when the batter has little bat speed or no follow through after contact. The batter swings, contacts the ball meekly, the force causes the bat to either stop at contact, or even deflect backwards a little bit, then the ball and bat collide again in rapid succession.

[QUOTE=NCASAUmp;669901]When the batter hits the ball twice with the bat, it's a foul ball.
[QUOTE]Over fair ground?

In the batter's box.

I once had this discussion with an umpire who worked a lot of HS & college ball and a little ASA SP.

At a FP tournament, he told me that, just like in baseball, the hands are part of the bat! Now, here is a guy in his late 40/early 50's who works allegedly high-level ball making an argument like an 8 yo on the playground.

Happened to be the UIC of the tournament, so I had a rule book handy. Opened right up and showed him that the hands were not part of the bat. He just waived his hand at me and told me I had no idea what I was talking about.

Go figure, then again, he is a politician, so truth and common sense were of absolutely no use here.