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  #151 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 15, 2010, 04:39pm
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we need a new president.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
What office are you running for?
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 15, 2010, 07:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Why would you think anyone would not stay with the play?
Because people screaming to/at you from another part of the field may be distracting especially if you "wish" to provide them with some type of indication to their query which could be more confusing than not.

You have been around long enough that I'm pretty sure you have experienced the following:

You are staying with a runner who may or may not miss a base. During the play, you hear another player (let's say F3) scream, "Blue! Blue! He missed 1st base!!!"

You stay with your mechanics and take the runner into 3rd base as the ball is coming in from the outfield. From behind you hear, "BLUE! BLUE?"

You check to make sure the runner is done, suspend play by calling "TIME", take a second look at the runner, turn around and address the player attempting to make an appeal.

You have now:
  • Completed your obligations to stay with the runner;
  • Made sure the play was over before suspending play;
  • Checked to make sure the runner isn't going to attempt to return and touch all bases;
  • Addressed the player making an appeal in a proper and professional manner;
  • And you now have a situation where a dead ball appeal can be made to the proper umpire in a calm fashion.
At no time did you allow yourself to be distracted or do anything that could distract or confuse anyone else.
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 04:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Because people screaming to/at you from another part of the field may be distracting especially if you "wish" to provide them with some type of indication to their query which could be more confusing than not.

You have been around long enough that I'm pretty sure you have experienced the following:

You are staying with a runner who may or may not miss a base. During the play, you hear another player (let's say F3) scream, "Blue! Blue! He missed 1st base!!!"

You stay with your mechanics and take the runner into 3rd base as the ball is coming in from the outfield. From behind you hear, "BLUE! BLUE?"

You check to make sure the runner is done, suspend play by calling "TIME", take a second look at the runner, turn around and address the player attempting to make an appeal.

You have now:
  • Completed your obligations to stay with the runner;
  • Made sure the play was over before suspending play;
  • Checked to make sure the runner isn't going to attempt to return and touch all bases;
  • Addressed the player making an appeal in a proper and professional manner;
  • And you now have a situation where a dead ball appeal can be made to the proper umpire in a calm fashion.
At no time did you allow yourself to be distracted or do anything that could distract or confuse anyone else.
OK, the answer is you are concerned about an umpire being distracted by the chaos or another umpire's play. Got it.

Always nice to see a thorough and coherent post which is on point.

Now that I read the above, I have probably fulfilled ny clinic requirement.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 11:37am
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Similar Type Play

Not that this tread is long enough, but I had a play that was similar to the original question this past weekend. When it happened I thought of this tread.

Ball hit to F7 where the grass is wet. R1 stops on 3rd. F7 throws ball to F2. F2 tries to hand me the ball for a dry one. I just stand there. F2 again tries to get me to give her a dry ball. I just stand there. Finally, the defensive coach realized what was happening and told F2 to throw the ball to F1. When she did, R1 immediately broke for home. F1 made a bad throw to F2 and R1 slid in safely at home.

Guess who got mad at me. Defensive coach and all the parents. My response to the coach was that I could not kill the play until the pitcher had the ball in the circle and all play had stopped. She said what kind of stupid rule is that. I could not help but smile at her foolish remark and that made her even madder. After the game, the coach told me that I was right and apologized for her behavior.

I love early season games!!


Did I handle the situation correctly?
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 01:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strike4 View Post
Not that this tread is long enough, but I had a play that was similar to the original question this past weekend. When it happened I thought of this tread.

Ball hit to F7 where the grass is wet. R1 stops on 3rd. F7 throws ball to F2. F2 tries to hand me the ball for a dry one. I just stand there. F2 again tries to get me to give her a dry ball. I just stand there. Finally, the defensive coach realized what was happening and told F2 to throw the ball to F1. When she did, R1 immediately broke for home. F1 made a bad throw to F2 and R1 slid in safely at home.

Guess who got mad at me. Defensive coach and all the parents. My response to the coach was that I could not kill the play until the pitcher had the ball in the circle and all play had stopped. She said what kind of stupid rule is that. I could not help but smile at her foolish remark and that made her even madder. After the game, the coach told me that I was right and apologized for her behavior.

I love early season games!!


Did I handle the situation correctly?
If all play has stopped you can call time. You don't have to wait until the ball is back in the circle. If you know the grass is wet and you need to replace the ball each time it goes into the grass, then why make her return it to the pitcher before you call time so she can throw it back to the catcher?
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 10:35pm
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Larry, the NCAA is specific that we shouldn't (generally) kill play unless the ball is in the circle in possession of F1. There are, of course, situations like a wet ball, when we might; but people tend to take the directions literally.

Then, we get the umpires that seem to think that whatever applies in NCAA has to apply everywhere else, since NCAA is "higher than" what they are calling then, even if that game has different rules, mechanics, or procedures. Or, that is how they have been instructed by their "trainers".

Strike 4, two answers for you (since you didn't indicate what rule set you were using). If NCAA, you were by the book, but not per common sense. If the ball is too wet to throw for the next pitch, why would you make the pitcher handle it?? That only increases the possibility that the next pitch (ball) will also be too wet, since her hand and/or glove handled the wet ball. If NFHS or ASA, that really isn't per the book; don't kill a play unnecessarily, but if all play has ended and you know the ball needs to be replaced, do it!!
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 11:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Larry, the NCAA is specific that we shouldn't (generally) kill play unless the ball is in the circle in possession of F1. There are, of course, situations like a wet ball, when we might; but people tend to take the directions literally.
I assume that is from the CCA since there is no mention of it in the rules. The two red paragraphs address the situation in the OP:

15.10 Suspension of Play (NCAA)
15.10.1 An umpire may temporarily suspend play in the following situations:
15.10.1.1 When, in his or her judgment, conditions justify such action.
15.10.1.2 When he/she leaves his or her position to brush the plate or to
perform other duties not directly connected with the calling of plays.
15.10.1.3 When a batter or pitcher steps out of position for a legitimate
reason.
15.10.2 An umpire shall not temporarily suspend play in the following situations:
15.10.2.1 While any play is in progress, including when a thrown ball hits
an umpire.
15.10.2.2 After the pitcher has started her delivery.
15.10.2.3 In case of injury until all plays in progress have been completed
or each runner has been held at her base.
Exception: When necessary
to protect an injured player, the umpire may suspend play immediately
and before resumption, award a base or bases that offensive players
would have reached, in the umpire’s judgment, had play not been
suspended.
15.10.2.4 At the request of players or coaches until all action in progress

has been completed.
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 09:49am
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Thanks for the replies. It was a NFHS game. The 3b coach was watching ever move F2 made hoping for a chance to send the runner, that is why I did not kill the play when F2 ask for a new ball. F2 was not aware of 3b coach's actions, so she thought the play was over. U2 noticed this also and was still in position to make a call if needed.
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 10:46am
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The 2010 CCA Softball Umpires manual says, with reference to the Look Back Rule (Page 103):
Quote:
When play has apparently ended, do not move to your next position until the ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle. If a player requests time before getting the ball to the pitcher in the circle, do not immediately grant it. Instruct the player "Get the ball to the circle."
I agree with your observation relative to 15.10.1.1; the wet ball should be considered as a possible condition that would justify calling time. However, your reference to 15.10.2.4 actually speaks against your point. By the definition, all action has not been completed if there are runners and the ball is not in the circle in control of the pitchers, and all the runners are stopped on a base. Prior to that point, you may believe that all apparent action is complete, but teams do utilize plays that are triggered by those last split-second decisions that can be made when the pitcher/circle/LBR actions create an opportunity. The NCAA ruling is predicated on making sure we (the umpires) do not take away any conceivable play either team might choose to make.
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