brief version of ASA rules
 

does anyone know of any place to find a concise version of SP ASA rules?

Sure, I've got 'em...

"Hit the damn ball." :D

In the rule book.

Cliff's Notes?

Maybe somebody publishes them in the "Classics on CD" series, with some famous actor doing the reading. You could listen while you sleep.

What is odd about the term Sierra Nevada Mountains?

There are so many ways to interpret that, I'm not sure what you mean exactly...

I use that location so that people know I'm not some flatlander ca city boy. :D

ASA Slowpitch Rules for Dummies (and Coaches) :p

Okay, I'll bite, with apologizes that we are hijacking the thread. Could it be...

Sierra is "mountain range" in Italian and nevada is "snowy" in Spanish, so I guess we have Snowy Mountain Range Mountains.

Building on that, many will 'pluralize' it in the American way, calling them the Sierra Nevadas, which gives us Mountain Range Snowies.

I do not believe there is any abbreviated version of the rule books for any organization. You can probably purchase an ASA Rule Book from Amateur Softball Association of America (ASA).

Just ask any coach or player. They can probably tell you.

Sounds about right.... although we try not to use the "S" word in a sentence.

Spanish, snowy, or Sierra?

i already have a copy of the full rule book. and why ASA feels the need to charge ~$20 for its rules is beyond me, i found a pdf online.

what i was asking for is if anyone knew of any league websites that may have went through the rule book and wrote a cliffs notes version of just the SP appropriate rules.

Mike R...you want to take this? :D

HAHAHA

You paid $20.00 for a rule book clearly marked $9.95 and can be found at ebay for $3.00 and youre complaining?

OK, I have cliff's notes.

They are $140.00.

yes, I accept paypal.

Sierra means mountains. Just as Sahara means desert, so Sierra Mountains and Sahara Desert are redundant. I didn't know that Nevada meant snowy. I assumed it was the name of an Indian tribe.

OK, what's odd about the song title Down in the Boondocks?

Yeah, Momma Gump was right.

When someone registers a team or as an umpire a rule book is included for less than $20 (to ASA).

Did you ever think that maybe some english speaking people took it over and added some words to it to make it more clear to their fellow English speaking people?

Times were much simpler before PC ...

Is the PDF part of ASA's website? If not, then how can you believe the veracity of it? In a nutshell, you can't. That is why we all use the rule book. There is no short cut to understanding the game. Quit trying to find one.

USSSA has some faults, but having their rule book online is a nice feature. I like having a hardcopy, but being able to search for key words in an online rule book is pretty nice. Plus you can cut and paste relevant rules when answering questions.

Boondocks has come to mean the sticks or, in the case of the song, an inferior neighborhood, but it actually means mountains in Tagalog. (American servicemen in WW II brought the term home from the Philippines.) So down in the mountains doesn't quite add up.

Well, as everyone knows, "boondocks" is derived from from the Tagalog word for "mountain", so the song really should be Up in the Boondocks. Unless the word has acquired a different definition in English usage.

And when I was in the service, "boondockers" were my boots.

Which, of course, it has.

When one language acquires a word from another language, there is no licensing agreement requiring the word to keep the same meaning. This would be especially true of place names.

I learned "tidal wave" in school, but around the mid-70's the media got all up in arms... "It should not be called tidal wave; it has nothing to do with the tides. It should be called tsunami."

Twenty years later, I learn tsunami translated mean "habor wave." So I'm glad I now know these waves only strike in the habors and not on the normal beaches.

Well, then, the people of Superior, WI had better be on the alert!

Did you know the human head weighs 8 pounds?

People live in Superior, WI?

So I've been told... :rolleyes:

All human heads? :eek:

I think "live" is a subjective term...

first off, the pdfs out there are copys of the physical rule book, there are these things called scanners nowadays.

secondly, i wasnt trying to find a short cut to understand the game, as an umpire. however, most PLAYERS dont read rule books, and i was trying to find a concise version of the rules for PLAYERS.

quit trying to be a jack ***

I'm thinking some heads lack brains within and would naturally be lighter than 8 pounds.

Unfortunately, the rule book is such a complicated document that abridging it would be more dangerous than anything else I can possibly imagine on the field shy of giving coaches 10 shots of espresso. Anything that isn't covered in the abridged book will be assumed to be either legal or will be incomplete in such a way that the intent of the rules will be completely misunderstood.

It'd be about as useful as Cliff's Notes would be to someone getting a Master's in Literary Analysis: just enough to be dangerous, more than enough to be embarrassing for the user.

Wow!

Gotta be at least three conversations going on here. Guess I'll add one more.

Anyone working USFA at Liberty Park in Birmingham tomorrow? I'll be going up to watch the niece.

This by the way is a "World Series" and I know that at least two worlds will be there!

Unless something cool happens, this is my last weekend working of the year :(

Speaking of a Cliff's Notes rule book... ;)

Last weekend was my last for the year. 199 games in all. Would've been more, but my wife and I went to Argentina for 2 weeks. I think it's a good trade!

I'm working an NSA indoor tourney this weekend. Well actually I'm just pulling the third shift tonight. I'll be working seven games between 1:45 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. tomorrow morning.

while i understand your point of view, i dont think its that bad of an idea.

99.9% of players arent going to read the rule book. players might read a "cliffs notes" version that covers common scenarios. players who know the "cliffs noted" version would be better, IMO, than players who dont know any rule versions. i know a pretty standard response i use often, to arguments posed by players, is "thats not a rule" or "thats not a rule in ASA softball"

obviously the rules would be prefaced with a statement like these are a concise version of the rules, not all scenarios for each rule, or exceptions for each rule are covered....

How about a list correcting the myths? :)

nevada can be translated in this context as snowy. It has other translations, such as, snow storm, snowfall. You could even go with the Snow Covered Sierras if you were so inclined.

I've heard that's been done before. ;)

Absolutely not. I think you have too much faith in the players and coaches. Giving them an abridged version of the rule book won't do anyone any kind of service, and here's why.

1 - Coaches and players love to pick and choose rules and take them out of context. At a National, I had couple of players b1tching at me because a couple of batters hit chip shots to the outfield without "breaking their wrists." I later found out that they were using Rules Supplement #10, which has to do with check swings!

2 - There are certain sections of the rule book that are pretty long because they have to be. Do you really want to try and abridge obstruction? Or interference? How about unreported subs? I don't think so.

3 - If you give players and coaches such a book, they're going to use it as THE authoritative guide on the rules of softball. They will ignore the fact that it's the abridged version. They will swear up and down "this is the rule! I read it! I read the rules!" No, you read the abridged rules, and had you bothered to read the ACTUAL rules, maybe you would understand that.

You're giving coaches and players WAY too much credit. Trust me, while your intentions may be good, I think abridging it would only serve to confuse things even more.

dont let anyone else hear you say that, very few posters on here show me any respect, you dont want to lower your street cred.

i was more talking about the casual SP rec league player, most of whom never even sniffed a varsity baseball jock (ie "high" level of baseball) thus dont know many rules.

if/when you ump a rec league SP game, how many times do you see a 1B or C stand in the baseline w/o possession of the ball???? i see it ALL THE TIME, theres no harm, IMO, in writing something like "obstruction is any act in which a fielder interferes with a runner, being in the baseline without possession of the ball is a form of obstruction. contact is not necessary for obstruction."

no point in beating a dead horse. obviously no one knows of any concise rule book versions. but at least you, NCASAUMP, handle yourself with class and can maintain a discussion without turning petty.

EDIT: this cliffs notes version would not be geared to players who know what RS 10 is, or who would have any idea on how to argue a check swing. more to inform players of, generally speaking, what is and is not allowed. This makes sense to me in my head, im not sure if im not writing it well enough that everyone else doesnt understand what im trying to say.

And even if they understand what obstruction is, it won't stop it from happening. I see it hundreds and hundreds of times a year, from the top levels on down to the bottom. Simply knowing a rule means nothing.

My point was that players already play enough "pick and choose" when it comes to the rules, and this will not help them to gain any sort of clarity. If it's a truly rec league, why should they concern themselves with the rules so much? There's a time and place for a friendly neighborhood game without umpires making every call, and that's just fine with me. However, I can only imagine how ugly it would get if something like this were ever created.

a 1b that knows that standing on the base when the ball is hit to the OF is obstruction is less likely to commit OBS than a 1b who doesnt know that standing on the base when the ball is hit to the OF is obstruction. how less likely may be up for debate.

while it stop obs from happening? probably not, will it stop some of the complaining, by the offending fielder, when it does? i cant see how it wouldnt be possible.

i know a common argument i get is "i was waiting on the throw" or "i wasnt in the baseline"

heres a classic baseball example. pitchers who know what the balk rule is are far less likely to balk than a pitcher who does not know what the balk rule is. if a pitcher thinks they can stride to home then throw to first, they probably will try to do that to pick a runner off. pitchers who know they arent allowed to do that, arent going to do that intentionally bc they dont want to give the base runner(s) 1 base.

to stop players from arguing when they are 100% misinformed/wrong. if a player knows that on a foul ball, that there is no longer an above the head requirement for an out, they are far less likely to argue when a foul ball does not go higher than the batters head and is caught.

if a player knows that a batted ball that hits home plate does not mean a foul ball, they are more likely to run to first, and potentially get on base, than to stand in the batters box with their thumb up their *ss bc they think its a foul ball, and then whine, "but it hit the plate!"

think of it this way, if you moved to india and joined a cricket league, assuming you know 0 about the rules of cricket, are you more likely to read a 200 page convoluted rule book, or a 5 page brief overview of the common rules?

i dont understand your pt that players would "pick and choose" the rules.

Dave,

What you are suggesting is called "coaching".

It is not the purpose of the rules or officials to teach players how to play the game.

That is why the coach gets a rule book upon registration. The PROBLEM is that this usually goes one of two places, in the bottom of their equipment bag or under the short leg of the dining room table.

It is my experience that most coaches/players never even look at the book until they are trying to find something that they can hang their balls on if prove they were shortchanged on a play. Even then, they have no knowledge of the entire rule, just what will satisfy their argument.

Of course, when you try to explain the entire rule, proper application and interpretation all they will do is point at the one sentence they found in the rule book and believe it is the word of god when it comes to HIS/HER game.

I have no problem with players learning the rules, but they have to be open to the entire book, not just what they believe supports their point of view.

I agree. One of the better men's teams that I see very seldom has a player argue seriously about a call or ruling. They have a manager who does all of their discussing - and I have yet to see him get anywhere near being tossed over inappropriate actions when talking with an umpire. This guy is an exception in that he does know the rules and many of the interpretations.

This answer applies to any rule infraction, not just the quoted example.

I really like the answer about "coaching". Beyond the coach's responsibility to teach his players, I think that playing any sport will offer the players many learning moments.

The baseball pitcher that steps toward home then throws to first, or the F3 that stands in the basepath without the ball, or the batter who doesn't run because his batted ball touched the plate is about learn something! If you make this mistake one time and it costs your team, are you going to keep doing the same thing over and over again?

If you "whine" about it enough, you're going to learn another lesson and that one is going to be a bit more painful! I guess that Rule Number One of the Reader's Digest version of the rule book would need to be, "The umpire's ruling is final and if you argue to the point of being a jackhole you can be removed from the game".

Now that would be an easy rule for the coaches to teach their players before ever stepping out onto the field!

And again, the beat goes on...and on...and on...and on . . . . . . . . . . . .

Didn't Shane die at the end of the movie.......are the credits rolling yet?

You want respect??? Then show respect. I gave you a legitimate answer, that has been echoed by nearly everyone on here, and you call me a "jacksa$$." Prior to that, I was showing you respect. (You may not have liked what you heard, but I never disrespected you.) However, don't look for me to show you respect anymore.

One of my favorite novels/movies. Compliments of Wikipedia:

Shane – the traveller and ex gunfighter, a mysterious gunman who enters into the life of Joe Starrett and his family and carves a place for himself in their hearts. Although he tries to leave his gunslinging past behind, refusing to even carry a gun, he decides to fight Fletcher and Wilson, the town enemies, in order to save Joe Starrett's farm. After he kills Fletcher and Wilson, he feels he must leave the town forever. (There is an unstated implication that he may be dying, as he departs.)

5 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

Maybe you werent trying to be a jack*ss but it sure comes off as that. why can a pdf that isnt found on the ASA website be the real rules???? why can you believe the veracity if a book, that obviously cant be read online, but not a digital version of it???? its when you use complete idiotic logic when trying to sound like you are omniscient that makes you sound like a jack*ss.

and if you werent trying to sound like a jack*ss, why even bother writing "quit trying to find one"???? no one said lets use a brief version of the rules to replace the official rulebook. all i was looking for was an easier way for PLAYERS to understand MORE, NOT ALL, about the rules.

Steve are you an A**hole in real life, or do you just play one on this website?:mad:

Maybe he spends lots of nights in Holiday Inn Express!! :D

I am sure you meant "why can't a PDF...."

Because, as I stated, and as many others have stated, there is no shortcut to understanding the rules of the game. Period. All of the rulebooks are as long as they are, because either players found a way to manipulate the rule as it was written, or else because the rule needed greater clarification. To take a part of a rule, out of context, will only lead to further misunderstanding. If, as you say, you really want the players to know the game, then hand them a rule book. Chances are just as many will read that as they would a "shortcut" PDF that you would give them if there was such a thing.

Let me see if I can translate what it is you are trying to say here....

People who transpose these things are liable to make mistakes. I have found all kinds of errors in peoples' attempts to compare rule sets in an easy to read handout. It happens. If it isn't from the source, then you cannot trust the legitimacy of the article. I thought that was a pretty simple concept. Now, if you are asking "why can't someone trust the veracity of a digital version of a rule book," then you can, as long as it is from the organization whose rules you are desiring to use. In the case of ASA, there is no such thing. However, for USSSA, NCAA and others, you can access a digital version of the rulebook. However, this is not what you were talking about in your OP.

If you are asking "how can I trust the ASA rulebook," which I hope you aren't, well that is simple. I get my ASA Rules Book from the ASA every year. They print it, they dessimenate it.


As stated previously, if you want respect, then give it, though apparently this is a very difficult concept for you to grasp.


It is sound advice that apparently you still don't wish to take. .

Have you ever heard the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water....?" Don't you really think that if the players wanted to know about the game, then they would take it upon themselves to learn about it? I have known some quite knowledgeable coaches and players. They are a rarity, but they are out there. They needed no short form PDF to learn the rules, and almost always had a book on hand.

Also, as has already been pointed out, "more" can sometimes be as dangerous as "none." A player, not armed with the complete knowledge of the rule, would attempt to interpret the knowledge they do have to fit a situation where it just doesn't fit. Then you would hear all of these players complaining to you, "but it was in that PDF that you gave me."

If a player comes to you wanting to know more about the game, then give them your rules book, or an old one, and tell them to read it cover to cover and to make notes on it, and then, if they have any questions, feel free to call or come up to you at the fields and ask these questions. You would much better serve them that way.

I wish you had told me this sooner!!!! :eek:

Personalities aside, there is something to be said about a searchable pdf to help one find ALL the information about a rule.

The 2008 ASA Rule Book is available from Seattle/Tacoma ASA Web Site http://www.minisoft.us/asawashington..._with_code.pdf

On another site, someone asked Steve M why he just didn't give a poster the answer he was seeking instead of asking about checking the rule book or umpire manual.

The reason is to try and get the umpire to learn. Any moron can get on a computer and look up something. Of course, they will only get what they are seeking and learn very little.

The reason you take the less convenient path is for the same reason college graduates can't make change for a from a $5 bill for a $4.40 purchase without the register telling them the amount to return.

The worst thing which ever happened to education in the United States is the allowance of calculators. So, what makes you think it would be any different in this case? Americans are a lazy sort, always looking for the shortcut. And where has that gotten us?

Read the book, attend the clinics, attend a couple of schools and get to know the game.

Wouldn't that elevate a few of the umpires out of moron status?
OK Coaches too! :D

And this too?:rolleyes:

The rest of us know better.
:) :cool:

If you have to keep this up, please take it offline. :mad:

ASA rule changes are now posted for 2010.

http://downloads.asasoftball.com/abo...thcomments.pdf