The Official Forum - "Fake Tag"

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The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)

- Softball (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/)

- - "Fake Tag" (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/54873-fake-tag.html)

steveshane67

Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:00am

"Fake Tag"

Quote:

OBSTRUCTION: The act of a defensive team member:
A. Who hinders or impedes a batter from striking at or hitting a pitched ball.
B. A fielder, who impedes the progress of a runner or batter-runner who is legally running the bases unless the fielder is:
1. in possession of the ball.
2. in the act of fielding a batted ball.
NOTE: Contact is not necessary to impede the progress of the batter-runner or a runner.

something you see in baseball regularly is on a hit and run, the MI will simulate turning a DP to get the runner to slide into 2nd even though the ball is in the OF.

NCASAUmp

Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67 (Post 628646)

This topic is stolen from softballfans.com ASA Pretending to Catch ball - SoftballFans.com

but my question is can a fielder do everything to simulate receiving a throw from another fielder, but never make a fake tag, yet the fielders actions cause the runner to not advance to the next base? is this OBS or does it depend on the sit.

something you see in baseball regularly is on a hit and run, the MI will simulate turning a DP to get the runner to slide into 2nd even though the ball is in the OF.

BretMan and I have already answered this question thoroughly and ad nauseam on that forum. :confused:

greymule

Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:57am

When I played baseball, fake tags were legal (and still are in OBR). They were fully accepted as fair play if the defense used them as legitimate strategy. The only "no-no" was an unnecessary fake tag, such as when a runner was stealing 2B and the pitch was fouled off.

I never saw an injury from a fake tag, probably because runners knew what was going on.

PtotheB

Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:22pm

Reading through that post on softball fans was the equivalent of doing a men's league double header worth of knowledge "gurus" and experts. I'm tired.

AtlUmpSteve

Sat Oct 03, 2009 08:42pm

Refused to read the entire thread there. Simple concept; fake tags are obstruction, faking catching a throw when no throw is happening is nothing. If a runner reacted to nothing illegal, that is just poor baserunning, and poor coaching.

When one team is stupid, that doesn't make the other team illegal. Get a clue, instead of blaming the opponents. That's exactly why there are base coaches; to direct the runners.

IRISHMAFIA

Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:01pm

From ASA Clinic Guide:

Fake Tag: Rule 8, Section 5 B 4 C

A fielder may not make a fake tag, a tag without the ball,
on a runner. Obstruction should be called if the runner is
hindered or impeded in any way, and all awards for

obstruction apply.

steveshane67

Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 628696)

From ASA Clinic Guide:

Fake Tag: Rule 8, Section 5 B 4 C

A fielder may not make a fake tag, a tag without the ball,
on a runner. Obstruction should be called if the runner is
hindered or impeded in any way, and all awards for

obstruction apply.

so OBS has to be physical, or threat of physical contact (ie fielder in base bath causes runner to slow/stop to not run into fielder)

CecilOne

Mon Oct 05, 2009 07:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67 (Post 628741)

so OBS has to be physical, or threat of physical contact (ie fielder in base bath causes runner to slow/stop to not run into fielder)

No. "hindered or impeded in any way"

steveshane67

Mon Oct 05, 2009 02:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 628877)

No. "hindered or impeded in any way"

why cant one deem faking receiving a throw as hindering or impeding?

the definition of hinder is "to delay, impede, or prevent action" a defensive player isnt faking receiving a throw, or faking a DP turn just for the heck of it, they are doing it to prevent the runner from reaching more bases/delaying their arrival at further bases.

RKBUmp

Mon Oct 05, 2009 03:02pm

Under rules supplements.

Fake Tag:

A fake tag occurs when a fielder without the ball deceives the runner by impeding thier progress; for example, causing a runner to slide, slow down or stop running.

Dakota

Mon Oct 05, 2009 05:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 629022)

Under Rule 1

Quote:

FAKE TAG: A form of obstruction by a fielder who attempts to tag a runner without the ball and thereby impedes a runner advancing or returning to a base.

Obviously, mere deception is not enough; there must also be an attempt to tag the runner without the ball, although it is pretty rare situation for the runner to have the ball! :D

Ref Ump Welsch

Mon Oct 05, 2009 05:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 629056)

Under Rule 1Obviously, mere deception is not enough; there must also be an attempt to tag the runner without the ball, although it is pretty rare situation for the runner to have the ball! :D

Unless we're playing Footbaseball. :D

IRISHMAFIA

Mon Oct 05, 2009 05:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 629056)

Under Rule 1Obviously, mere deception is not enough; there must also be an attempt to tag the runner without the ball, although it is pretty rare situation for the runner to have the ball! :D

Just because it wasn't a fake tag, doesn't mean it isn't obstruction.

Dakota

Mon Oct 05, 2009 08:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 629066)

Just because it wasn't a fake tag, doesn't mean it isn't obstruction.

True, but it means it wasn't a fake tag.

NCASAUmp

Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 629100)

True, but it means it wasn't a fake tag.

Which is merely just another example of OBS if the runner is hindered. :)

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