getting inside
 

U1 goes inside and pivots and has batter/runner to second or no in 3 person mechanics? Also what do college assignors/observers look for? Can you have a baseball like called third strike mechanic or is it just the basic one?

What association are you calling for? May make a difference...

Let's assume no one goes out to call the catch or fair/foul, and let's assume we're talking ASA.

If there are no runners on, 3BU goes inside to cover the batter-runner going to 2B. If there's a lone runner on 1B, 3BU covers 2B, including the BR. If there's a single runner on 3B, 3BU releases to cover the BR going to 2B only if the runner on 3rd is absolutely committed to heading home.

So in a nutshell, as long as 1BU is NOT counter-rotated, 3BU will usually have calls at 2B.

In all other cases, 1BU has the BR going to 2B.

If I screwed that up, someone will let me know. :)

NCAA mechanics? Someone else will have to provide an answer. I believe they're largely similar to ASA's, but I believe there are differences.

Anyone else want to take this one? The OP prior to the edit did not specify any association, and I only do ASA.

multiple runners on
 

with multiple runners on U1 is already @ 2nd correct

As NC has already stated it depends on the situation (if ball is hit in air to outfield and someone is going out) and where the umpires are who has the BR into 2nd.

Your second question, yes with multiple runners on U1 is near 2nd, off the shoulder of the 2nd baseperson. But again if there is a fly ball from left fielder to right fielder going toward the middle part of the field U1 should be chasing that fly ball for catch no catch, and U3 would have BR into 2nd base. So it depends on a number of variables who would take the BR into 2nd.

To your last original question, ASA and FED mechanics are the same. NCAA has it's own mechanics. They "work the rim" and have a different person cover 1st base calls when U1 goes out with nobody on. There are other small differences I am sure (I don't call NCAA so someone else will have to chime in) these are just 2 that I do know of.

I am not sure what a 'baseball like' called 3rd strike is, but in all softball that I have seen having a baseball like call is not a good thing. By that I mean pointing instead of the hammer. Also looking away from the ball when making a called 3rd is frowned very heavily upon by any ruleset.

NCAA 3 umpire mechanics.

U1 on a single can stay outside on a single with no one on. They watch the touch and then move to a position 10' from the bag at 90º from the front of the bag. If there is a throw back that is the best position to see the play. U3 is coming over to a point 10' from 2nd at 90º from the front of the bag. U1 will come into a holding zone when the single runner goes to 2nd. If the runner goes to 3rd they (U1) will rotate home to the point of the plate. This is different than ASA.

Turning your head away from the ball and pointing on a 3rd strike is a big "NO NO" in NCAA mechanics. Not that it is too much like baseball it's just not seeing the ball is a bad thing. You would not be too convincing on a D3K call.

Why am I awake at 3 am on a school night?:eek:

NCAA mechanics
 

so on a single U1 lets the U3 take the runner into second and does not go to the inside they stay on "the rim" is that correct? and as far as called 3rd i'm not talking about pointing the finger and looking to your right or left, i'm talking about the various ways that you can ring them up per say you know with the different kinds of arm contortions and such.

The NCAA allows the umpires to make a judgement as to if it is better to stay out or come inside. The term used is "working outside".

As far as a 3rd strike call it is suppose to be bigger than the other two but the umpire is allowed to be somewhat creative. Major league the movie would not work.

Rachel
 

as far as whackers at first lets say, or any base for that matter, in ncaa do they want just the arm extended above the head to visualize a out or can you give it the good old banger move?

If you are asking on close plays will the NCAA allow a sell call, the answer is yes, of course. In fact, the selling of close plays, as in ASA, is encouraged.

tips
 

yes close plays give it the hammer punch or what have you. I have an incredible opportunity this weekend to get into D1 college softball and I have worked 3 person baseball a lot in college but I know it is a little different. I also have watched the girls games on espn and i only see the basic fist above the head type out call. anyone with any tips or advice for me I would greatly appreciate it.

The thing with D1 is there are a lot of close plays at first. Save the sell for the banger. If you sell a call where the runner is out by more than a foot then you look nervous. The key is to get your head still for the call. I try to get my body stopped as the fielder is gathering the ball watch the release and then get my head still at the base. i will actually practice this between innings during warm ups so that It is habit. That will save you when they fake the throw and then go to another base.

Evaluators are intuned to body language.

Rachel,

I have never heard this before. I've been told to not be moving when a play that I'm judging is in the process of happening, but I have never been specifically instructed to do what you are saying.

GREAT TIP!

Rachel-
 

Is there any way I could converse with you on the phone for a few minutes I would love to pick your brain?

between innings
 

what is the ideal spot between innings for U1 and U3?

From the 2009 CCA Softball Umpire's Manual
Sounds like you could use the manual. :cool:

manual
 

yes I do but it won't be here by saturday and I am just trying to get the basic stuff. 15 feet of the foul line in fair territory like baseball?

I only watch baseball on TV, so I can't comment on what they do. :D

NCAA softball wants us 15 feet off the foul line at approximately where the grass starts.

Ideal? IMO, standing with your PU on the baseline between the plate and your assigned position.

Reality, and prescribed mechanic, is that those responsible for this are fearful of possible confrontation and hide the umpires as far away from the players/coaches as reasonably possible. Move into the OF grass approx. 10-15 feet off the foul line.

Short answer, U1 is responsible for calls at 2B when U3 goes out on a fly ball or the play starts with a runner on 2B.

An angry phone call from a coach :rolleyes:

What is your perception of a "baseball like" 3rd strike mechanic?

I think the NCAA wants the base umpires concentrating on the game and not yucking it up with the PU talking about where they will be going to dinner.

I watch the infielders and count pitches because if I have a coach question me on if the pitcher took 6 warmups I can have an answer.

Another point from Ed. If you called the out on the bases to end the inning you do not clean the pitchers plate. You just go to the outfield. Your partner cleans it. If the plate ump calls the out then it is whomever is in the middle of the diamond. If both are on the wings then it is U3's responsibility.

Don't clean bases unless they are dirty to the point of affecting play. Wait till the inning is over. If you clean a base right after a close play it weakens your call. We play on dirt.

That view is apparently not limited to NCAA, and I've always taken it as being treated like a child.

"If you two don't cut that out, I'll have to come in there and separate you."

That would be your problem. I'm usually talking about the game, not dinner.

Which can easily be done from the foul line even while talking about something else.

How is it that umpires make such a big deal of pre-game meetings and communications among umpires, but when the game starts, that priority seems to disappear? There are a bundle of little signals to remind each other of particular situations or possible scenarios, but actual discussion is frowned upon? I just don't understand the hesitation to allow something that existed for years.

Or whoever is closest to the PP can do it and then hustle to their position on the foul line. Let me see. As U3 I bang a BR at 2B on a line drive to right on which U1 went out and I'm suppose to turn and move to my position behind 3B and U1 is suppose to hustle in past his position, clean the PP and then return to his position. That cannot be right.

Clean the base when necessary. If a sliding runner or crossing SS cover the base with dirt, remove the dirt WITH A BRUSH, not your foot. I certainly would not leave it covered to give cause to question a call on a subsequent play that inning.

The "weakens the call" paranoia must be tough to deal with when working the plate and a batter covers the plate with dirt on the way to the dugout after getting pumped out on strikes.:D

I have been fortunate enough to have been evaluated by all three of the people that make the decisions on who works post season in the NCAA in the past year. I am not going to argue why they want what they want I am just saying what I have been told. That is what the original poster wanted.

What an umpire does when the ball is in play is exponentially more important than these points. Too much time is spent "majoring on the minors" these days. Do what makes sense. I don't clean a base unless it needs it, but if it needs to be cleaned immediately after a call, I clean it. If a coach's perception of this causes them to come out, fine. I'll probably have them take their perception and their a$$ back to the dugout.

So many umpires that I work with and evaluate are so concerned with these types of ancillary points that the rest of their game, the important parts, suffer. I do let those I'm teaching/evaluating know what the Staff expects when it comes to these things, but that's about as far as it goes. I'm much more concerned with an umpire's ability to call the game than his/her ability to buy the proper belt buckle or where/how they stand between innings.

Yeah, but some people get really, really hung up on these things. I was working a tournament a while back, three man crew. In one game, as U1, I walked over behind second base to talk with my partner about a rotation issue I had noticed. Later, in another game, I was U3. There was a team that was warming up right where tradition has me standing, between innings, so I opted for the old just off the foul line a few feet in from third. In both cases, I got from the evaluator the old "where are you supposed to be between innings?!" While the first instance was deemed acceptable, with furrowed brow, I was told in the second instance that I should have moved the players warming up back. That had me wondering, why then, do we have alternate between inning positions?

Basically, though, these little nuances are little more than a case of "when in Rome...etc."

I can appreciate the complaint of NCAA evaluators being too worried about details. I agree with Topper in that what you do when the ball is in play is what is important. There are a lot of great umpires that call a great game. What the coaches want is a consistent accurate zone, the calls right and a lot of hustle. They want you to be approachable and be professional. A lot of us do that.

I know even when I would be on the line with my PU I would be talking about the game. The coaches don't know that. Your crew needs to give the perception of unity and teamwork. Too many conferences with your crew may give the perception of confusion. If you need to get together to discuss something do so but not as a course of habit.

Things like the decision for when to go out on a ball to the outfield and when it is just wasting an umpire. That is what evaluators look for. The minor stuff is the minor stuff but it is noticed.

Seems there are a lot of people who worry a lot about what the coaches think or perceive. I'm not there to satisfy what some putz chooses to read into anything.

Even with that belief, meeting routinely eliminates such perceptions. It is the rare meetings that will throw up a red flag and make a coach wonder what their problem may be.

I'm with Top, just do the damn job. The minor stuff should be routine and take care of itself.

An evaluator should be observing the entire umpire, not looking for CS issues to nitpick.

Kinda like what "type" of hammer mechanic is executed?

Sometimes the CS things separate umpires...for instance let observers know who has read the manual and who hasn't bothered? Making the CS issues part of the entire umpire!!

I personnally think its fine for umpires to meet, but its not consistent umpire team to umpire team, so I think that lends to disallowing it.

There is disfavor with the practice in both ASA and NCAA.

In regular tournaments I think its fine and like to BS a little between innings, and no its not always about the game - when training a rook, I insist on it most 1/2 innings so each training issue can be addressed immediately (or even maybe to tell him/her good job/call).

In championship play, ASA has put little X's on the field and I dutifully move to those X's and stand there and try to avoid talking at all....

LOL. Don't we know. And according to my Delaware Slow-Pitch friends, those are the only ones that are acceptable for softball.

Taken out of context, I know. But, still fun.

This is probably one of the best pieces of advice in this entire string of threads.

IMO, the "let the ball take you to the play" theory is taken too literally by some umpires, particularly rookies.

It is one of those things that has been said for years, but meant to keep you eye on the ball until it is release. See the throw and move your head/eyes ahead of the ball. I don't think so much about my head being still than I do to just get my eyes focused.

This is one case where it is probably easier to do from a distance, but that is not where we are normally stationed.

You run out of brew again? If anything, quite the opposite.

It is rare you will find me at the same place more than twice between innings during a game.

I do not promote one location over another. I have my preference & opinion and I teach the prescribed mechanics. Personally, I believe the umpires should be relaxed and quite "informal' between innings, not standing at parade rest at a certain spot. I did enough of that in the military.

And yet, I've had a number of clinicians express that the umpire should do exactly that: follow the ball like it's some sort of doctor's vision test.

I think what they're trying to get umpires to do is to watch the ball just a little longer like you said, then be at the play, body stopped and head still. Newer umpires have the tendency to assume the play is going one place or another. Often, they're right. Unfortunately, it's when they're wrong that things go to hell.

[COLOR=black]Actually, I'm not that tough on evaluations unless there is an issue that is completely out of line that could effect the game or safety of the participants (including the umpire). I prefer to address the small stuff on the side with the umpire and work with him/her to improve. An evaluator should be part of the training process, not intimidation process. Unfortunately, some people believe in fear and intimidation as a training method. I prefer pride and satisfaction with a job well done as a motivator.

As an umpire, I'm on the field to do the job assigned and do it in the fashion expected by the sanctioning body under which those players chose to participate. If I do the job properly, odds are someone is still going to be upset with something that didn't go their way. The only people I care about when working the game are my partners.

(Rant on)We've all had to deal with umpires I refer to a GAGAs. Go along to get along. We all know a few. These are the umpires who try to socialize with the coaches and players during the game or maybe a parent or two at the fence. Some are so worried that they may not get a good rating from this coach or that team, they are willing to overlook what they may consider small infractions as to garner favor. Because of this, I've seen umpires that you would probably refuse to work with get HS tournament games while others who just do their job sit at home.
(Rant off)

The only person an umpire should worry about impressing are the partners.

Don't understand this comment. Hell, half the stuff that comes out of a coach's or player's mouth is something I may not want to hear. :rolleyes: Let them talk, really don't care. My mind will not permit FYCs, so that isn't going to happen. OTOH, there may be something going on that I am missing. No such thing as too much information.

On an eval, yeah. However, that doesn't mean the umpire should not be reminded of the preferred mechanic for that association afterward.

Again, I agree (Man, this better not become a habit! ;) ). That doesn't mean an evaluation should be peppered with a ****load of little issues that bury a relatively good performance. I just believe the CS can be handled with a little counseling. Now, if the umpire blows off the UIC/evaluator/whomever and continues in the same manner, yeah, that definitely needs to be noted before this umpire moves on.

I know ASA often takes a hit on "robotics" though I don't see it, but there is more to doing things in the prescribed manner, even the CS things, than enjoying and demonstrating individuality.

How can we take a promising young umpire who wants to be the best and train him/her in the prescribed mechanics (the associations, not mine) and tell him/her the manner in which s/he has to perform to advance then have that umpire stand and watch other accomplished umpires basically do their own thing and continue to get the best assignments?

Anyone who has kids knows the "do as I say, not as I do" philosophy wears thin real quick.

Hope I didn't cut out any questions you had. :D

Nope...good job!! And good info!!:)

what the heck does CS mean?

thanks.

Chicken Sh_t.