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-   -   leaving a base early (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/54444-leaving-base-early.html)

steveshane67 Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:34pm
leaving a base early
 
ASA 8-7-R

Quote:
Section 7. THE RUNNER IS OUT.
R. (Slow Pitch) When the runner fails to keep contact with the base to which
they are entitled until a pitched ball is batted, touches the ground, or reaches
home plate.
EXCEPTION: (16-Inch Slow Pitch) A runner may leave a base as soon as
the ball is put in play.
I didnt find anything procedural about how to handle this sit. Is the batted ball still live/dead, if not hit, is it a ball/strike/no pitch?

on an unrelated note, Ive never seen 16" played, but are runners allowed to leave the base basically whenever they want? (ie doesnt ball is put in play happen when the pitcher still has the ball on the mound?)

AtlUmpSteve Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:49pm
Can't/won't address 16"; don't really know the game.

In both fastpitch, and slowpitch; if a runner leaves a base before they legally can (different time, but same effect); "DEAD BALL", no pitch, runner is out.

steveshane67 Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:14am
thank you,

follow up question,

how is one supposed to discern the difference of not touching the base until the ball is batted and 8-7-V

Quote:
V. When a runner is positioned behind and not in contact with a base to get a
running start on any fly ball.
EFFECT: The ball remains live.
SP game, lets say the runner, during the pitch, takes a step off 2B towards RF, the rule book really expects you to wait to see if 1) if the ball is hit high enough in the air to be considered a fly ball and 2) if the runner gets a running start.

seems like an awfully worded rule, and really completely unnecessary. and why would a runner want a running start on a FLY ball, wouldnt a GROUND ball more warrant a running start???

JEL Thu Aug 27, 2009 07:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveshane67 (Post 622531)
thank you,

follow up question,

how is one supposed to discern the difference of not touching the base until the ball is batted and 8-7-V



SP game, lets say the runner, during the pitch, takes a step off 2B towards RF, the rule book really expects you to wait to see if 1) if the ball is hit high enough in the air to be considered a fly ball and 2) if the runner gets a running start.

seems like an awfully worded rule, and really completely unnecessary. and why would a runner want a running start on a FLY ball, wouldnt a GROUND ball more warrant a running start???

For 8-7-V, think here; Tag-up.

wadeintothem Thu Aug 27, 2009 08:20am
The rule prevents a player from standing 10 yards into the outfield and timing his running start so he tags his base right as the ball is caught/touched - thus he cannot be appealed out, but he is already at a full speed run on the way home at the moment of the catch/touch.

And yes, I would expect an umpire to see that a runner was lining up behind the base as we are expected to see anything else...

Ref Ump Welsch Thu Aug 27, 2009 08:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveshane67 (Post 622525)
on an unrelated note, Ive never seen 16" played, but are runners allowed to leave the base basically whenever they want? (ie doesnt ball is put in play happen when the pitcher still has the ball on the mound?)
I played in some 16" tournaments when I was younger, mostly my HS FCA huddle playing against other schools' FCA huddles and some Nebraska football players who were FCA members. I don't have my book with me to verify what I'm about to say, so this comes from memory. I recall we were able to leave the base once the ball left the pitcher's hand on the pitch. Our FCA huddle sponsor was an ASA umpire at the time, and he taught us that rule. Again, I don't have the book in front of me to verify that.

steveshane67 Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem (Post 622557)
The rule prevents a player from standing 10 yards into the outfield and timing his running start so he tags his base right as the ball is caught/touched - thus he cannot be appealed out, but he is already at a full speed run on the way home at the moment of the catch/touch.

And yes, I would expect an umpire to see that a runner was lining up behind the base as we are expected to see anything else...

i just got it, i misunderstood that V was talking about after contact, while R was talking about before contact.

stepping backwards to get a running tag seems awfully hard to time correctly. was this a common practice until that rule was put in place?

steveshane67 Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 622559)
I played in some 16" tournaments when I was younger, mostly my HS FCA huddle playing against other schools' FCA huddles and some Nebraska football players who were FCA members. I don't have my book with me to verify what I'm about to say, so this comes from memory. I recall we were able to leave the base once the ball left the pitcher's hand on the pitch. Our FCA huddle sponsor was an ASA umpire at the time, and he taught us that rule. Again, I don't have the book in front of me to verify that.
so is it something like theres no stealing but you are liable to be picked off the base?

Ref Ump Welsch Mon Aug 31, 2009 07:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveshane67 (Post 622609)
so is it something like theres no stealing but you are liable to be picked off the base?
Yes, the way I remember it. Imagine having a hulking Div. I defensive lineman at pitcher, and another hulking Div. I offensive lineman at 1B. Not a good place to be off the base and risking a pick-off. ;)


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