Whose call at 3B ?
 

From this last weekend. R1 on 2B. Catcher,after each pitch, is doing the throw back to F1 real quick thing. About the 4th pitch she throws it to 2B for the pick off, ball goes off the glove of F4, into the outfield and R1 bolts for 3B.

Who should take the call at 3B ?

My partner , BU, chased runner into 3B. I also moved up the line for the call. My opinion was I should have the call-same as overthrow at 2B on steal. I had the better angle and I wasn't chasing the runner....

So how do you handle that ?

My first instinct is BU has it.
BU shouldn't be "chasing" runner but busting in and for distance and angle.
(But that could just be a matter of semantics)

I'm with Chess Ref. This doesn't meet the criteria when BU has the play at third. Per Sherlock Holmes, eliminate the impossible, what remains is possible.

BU has third when 1) B-R all the way around; nope.
BU has third when 2) PU has play at the plate on a lead runner; nope.
BU has third when 3) there is a return throw from home; nope.
BU has third when 4) PU is trapped by wild pitch or passed ball; nope.
BU has third when 5) first play by an infielder; nope (first play was pickoff attempt at second).

That leaves PU has play at third. Certainly understand BU reacting, but PU should call off and make the call.

OK, so is it the same with a runner on first and the ball gets past the catcher and the BU gets in postition for a call at second, the runner may go to third, who has the possible call at third? I must be doing it wrong because I circle around second base outside and move toward the SS and get ready for a possible play at third. I think I see my error. Also if the PU is moving toward third, should the BU just stay outside or move a little inside for the runner returning to second? Dave

I disagree, Steve. Had this been a straight steal of 3B on the pitch, the BU would take any play on R1 into 3B. Why not now?

And to follow up, if the play continues past 3B to HP, the PU would take that... if he's up at 3B, that's a lot of hustle to get down for the HP call.

The call at 3B is the PU in this sitch.

Because with R1 on 1B, the BU is in B, correct? In your sitch (sole runner on 2B), wouldn't the BU be in C? I'm not 100% familiar with FP mechanics, but that's my understanding...

BU probably would be caught moving towards 2B and having to trail the runner into 3 and would have a poor angle on a sliding banger at 3B.

I do think this IS PU's call but I think PU needs to pick his partner up on this and call the BU off because PU should be better off, but BU can certainly make it if something goes wrong. If it ends up being a no brainer call BU can make it.

This sounds like one of those plays where reading a play, hustles, and communication would be better than an dictated assignment.

Per ASA NUS, this is BU. Any deviation must communicate.

PU better NOT be in B... ;)

ASA Umpire Manual, Page 253:

Why double up on #1 and #2? A triple with no one on base, or for that matter, on a triple with runners on base, the batter/runner is the last runner into third. Dave

Corrected. Oops! :)

BINGO..

Especially the communication part.

(and especially the reading the play part;)0

(oh yeah, and of course the hustle part);)

I agree.

At your nationals, unless the BU falls down or something else drastic happens, BU needs to get it at all costs. Now may be you UIC won't care but I do not know that and I imagine you want the best eval possible.

Bu call if help is needed because of crappy angle then go get it. its a single runner and thats the BU call

BU would take straight steal of 3rd, because that is the first play. If BU is working between pitches to make that pickoff call at 2nd, he will be approximately even with 2nd to get the proper 90 angle on that tag call. No way to react quickly enough to get any kind of angle at 3rd, while PU works straight up, and immediately has the better angle.

On the possible follow up, PU has NOT run completely to 3rd, as his angle and calling position is best from 10-12 from 3rd, while working fair ground. He is better capable of covering that play effectively at home from fair ground (overthrow would ALWAYS be foul ground), moving roughly 40' while runner moves 60', than BU could move 60' while runner moves 60' from 2nd to 3rd.

"Last" runner clearly implies trail, when there is a lead, or prior runner. That really doesn't apply here.

I'm fairly sure I could show you very quickly on a field (or board) how much easier it is for PU to take this call; and don't believe what you have quoted from the manual makes it BU call. At the very least, as I first stated, PU should communicate and come up for this easy angle.

Reread your NCAA Manual; 10.4 on page 261. BU responsibility in two umpire is first play in the infield by an infielder at first, second or third. Described first play was pickoff at 2nd (read "working between pitches, 8.5, page 140, where BU commits to a primary calling position at 2nd). The play to 3rd is now a second play, with BU very much out of calling position (90 degree to runner sliding into 3rd).

With PU in perfect position, manual does NOT make it BU call; so why do think BU needs to make a blind call and go for help? A good PU will pick that call up with perfect position 100% of the time.

Agree a lot with Steve. BU, if doing their job, is not there for this call. Now if BU phones in the call to 2B then phones it into 3B, I guess thats ok; other than that, that BU is now way behind the runner and PU should be coming up to help a brother out. Also agree the manual does not state this is BU's call.

I take back what I said earlier.:( I got mixed up and confused with schools and overextended. We were told one thing at Va and another at Ok on the steal at second base (page 255). This is where I overextended. My fault. Sorry.:o

I like Steve's description.

base ump
 

BU will take this play. There is no other runner or batter runner on base. The bu is responsible for a lone runner at all bases but home. except a steal of second because of the side of the field the BU is on initially an the lack of time to get to the play.

So.. um.. when exactly is PU responsible for a steal of 2B?

Don't get me wrong... I AGREE with your reasoning and think that the 2nd play in this sitch at 3B SHOULD be the PU. I just believe that right now by ASA book, it's BU's call.

You are correct. However I can tell you that in two man NCAA I have been hung out to dry in this situation at least 5 times ( I will say that after the coaches evaluations I have not seen those people on the staff page at assignbyweb or another at arbiter so maybe they just retired ;) )