ump calls infield fly, but it is not

[LakeErieUmp]

OK, I must be missing something. The post said TWO outs - you can't advance the runners due to the force and still call the batter out. That adds up to THREE outs by my math.

In my opinion, this is one of those situations when the players and coaches really are supposed to know the rules. The infield fly call mechanic is really just confirmation that (1) we are aware of the situation, and (2) that it's an "infield" fly vs. a ball too far past the basepaths for IF to apply.

In this situation, the batter must know that IF does not apply with 2 outs; his coaches must know and yell at her/him to keep running. The God Rule does not provide for do-overs.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

OK, I must be missing something. The post said TWO outs - you can't advance the runners due to the force and still call the batter out. That adds up to THREE outs by my math.

Yep, you are. Re-read gumpire's post. It says that if the ball wasn't caught and it would have been a fair ball, put the BR on 1B and advance the runners, if forced.

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

In my opinion, this is one of those situations when the players and coaches really are supposed to know the rules. The infield fly call mechanic is really just confirmation that (1) we are aware of the situation, and (2) that it's an "infield" fly vs. a ball too far past the basepaths for IF to apply.

Too far past the basepaths? I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that you don't really mean that. Calling an IFF has zero to do with basepaths, and everything to do with whether an infielder can catch the ball with ordinary effort. The infielder can be standing in the grass and jog halfway into the outfield, and it will still be an IFF as long as he did so with ordinary effort.

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

In this situation, the batter must know that IF does not apply with 2 outs; his coaches must know and yell at her/him to keep running. The God Rule does not provide for do-overs.

No, that's our job. It'd be nice if they knew, but the reality is that a lot of people, even HUGE fans of the game, can't explain what the IFF rule is. Maybe I'm spending too much time in the trenches with rec-league softball that I consider it a luxury to have players understand basic rules, but that's just how I see it.

[LakeErieUmp]

My comments were directed toward the situation as posted which did NOT specify whether a play could have been made at 1B (or any other base). It seemed the situation was suggesting that BR stopped running when she heard "infield fly, batter is out".

Can't put BR on first if a play was made at any base - that's out number 3.

So that's what I was referring to - what do we do if the IF call resulted in the BR not running? That's where my comments about the offense (and defense) need to know the situation came into play 'cause we can't say "I messed up, BR you get first" if the defense made an easy play because she stopped running at the call.

Does that make more sense now as to where I was going with this line of thinking?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

My comments were directed toward the situation as posted which did NOT specify whether a play could have been made at 1B (or any other base). It seemed the situation was suggesting that BR stopped running when she heard "infield fly, batter is out".

Can't put BR on first if a play was made at any base - that's out number 3.

So that's what I was referring to - what do we do if the IF call resulted in the BR not running? That's where my comments about the offense (and defense) need to know the situation came into play 'cause we can't say "I messed up, BR you get first" if the defense made an easy play because she stopped running at the call.

Does that make more sense now as to where I was going with this line of thinking?

It does. However, why did the BR stop running? Because the PU screwed up. The BR heard that s/he was out, so s/he stopped. If the PU hadn't have called the IFF, I'm pretty certain the BR would've kept going.

So since the PU f'ed up, s/he now has to fix it. If the ball wasn't caught, put the BR on 1B and advance any forced runners. If the ball WAS caught, then none of this matters, as the defense still made the out, and the BR's actions are irrelevant.

[7in60]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

It does. However, why did the BR stop running? Because the PU screwed up. The BR heard that s/he was out, so s/he stopped. If the PU hadn't have called the IFF, I'm pretty certain the BR would've kept going.

So since the PU f'ed up, s/he now has to fix it. If the ball wasn't caught, put the BR on 1B and advance any forced runners. If the ball WAS caught, then none of this matters, as the defense still made the out, and the BR's actions are irrelevant.

This happened to me a couple weeks ago. I called an IFF in a women's league where they don't use the rule. R1 and R2 stopped running, the ball dropped and the defense threw the ball to third. I awarded one base to all runners.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by 7in60

This happened to me a couple weeks ago. I called an IFF in a women's league where they don't use the rule. R1 and R2 stopped running, the ball dropped and the defense threw the ball to third. I awarded one base to all runners.

Was that because you judged the mis-call caused R1 to not reach 3rd in time?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

My comments were directed toward the situation as posted which did NOT specify whether a play could have been made at 1B (or any other base). It seemed the situation was suggesting that BR stopped running when she heard "infield fly, batter is out".

Can't put BR on first if a play was made at any base - that's out number 3.

So that's what I was referring to - what do we do if the IF call resulted in the BR not running? That's where my comments about the offense (and defense) need to know the situation came into play 'cause we can't say "I messed up, BR you get first" if the defense made an easy play because she stopped running at the call.

Does that make more sense now as to where I was going with this line of thinking?

Several bad things can happen as a result of an inadvertent IFF call, mostly to the offense.

1. The BR stops running.
2. The other runners believe the force is removed so they hang back closer to their base than they otherwise would, and may not advance at all if the ball is not caught.

It is also possible the defense will not make a throw for a force out, depriving them of an out.

In the OP situation, this bad stuff only matters if the ball is not caught.