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ronald Mon Jun 22, 2009 08:33pm

Mike Candrea play
 
R1 on 1b, no outs. B2 Bunts. F4 comes to cover 1b and r1 runs so as to just make slight contact that prevents f4 from getting to 1B. He has his players do this and Malcolm Boyles told us about this play at the FP camp.

Naturally, now F4 takes a more circular route to 1b. I imagine when it happened at first f4 was quite near the base line and r1 did not have to go to far to get her. Never saw the play; just trying to describe it.

What are you going to do? If you know what they did, please refrain. If it goes no where, heck, give em the answer.

IRISHMAFIA Mon Jun 22, 2009 09:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronald (Post 610259)
R1 on 1b, no outs. B2 Bunts. F4 comes to cover 1b and r1 runs so as to just make slight contact that prevents f4 from getting to 1B. He has his players do this and Malcolm Boyles told us about this play at the FP camp.

Naturally, now F4 takes a more circular route to 1b. I imagine when it happened at first f4 was quite near the base line and r1 did not have to go to far to get her.

Speaking ASA

Obviously, this is pure umpire observation and judgment on behalf of the umpire.

There is no rule to cover this as interference though it could be obvious that R1 is committing an act of interference. By definition and RS 33, it is interference, but there is no associated rule.

There was a rule change proposal a couple years ago that would have handled this on an UC level, but it went nowhere.

AtlUmpSteve Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:34pm

Who has the right of way? The runner. F4 isn't in possession of the ball, fielding a batted ball, nor making a throw, or any protected activity. Unless you are prepared to rule malicious contact, flagrant contact, or an unsporting act, the runner can choose her running path, even to the effect of hindering the unprotected fielder.

At the same time, if you don't rule obstruction, the runner (R1) has made a play on her at 2nd easier for the defense.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Jun 23, 2009 06:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 610270)
Who has the right of way? The runner. F4 isn't in possession of the ball, fielding a batted ball, nor making a throw, or any protected activity. Unless you are prepared to rule malicious contact, flagrant contact, or an unsporting act, the runner can choose her running path, even to the effect of hindering the unprotected fielder.

At the same time, if you don't rule obstruction, the runner (R1) has made a play on her at 2nd easier for the defense.

Aaahh!!! This is where that judgment-thingy comes into play. IF you judge the runner was running out of their way for the purpose of drawing OBS, they are not being impeded by the defense.

I doubt, however, that such a move would ever be that obvious, much like the Japanese use their F4 to obstruct a runner coming off of 1B. This is something that was noticed (and maybe discussed here) a couple years ago during the World Cup. I believe one of the talking heads (Michelle Smith?) pointed it out. The movement is so slight it is barely noticeable, yet it will force the runner to take an extra step or two to the outside.
It is a calculated risk that they are willing to take to gain a possible advantage.

Ref Ump Welsch Tue Jun 23, 2009 01:07pm

This is something I keep an eye out for in slow-pitch, especially on those slow rollers in coed wreck. Sometimes the runner is a big burly guy who could knock Miss California (the former one) on her rear, and that could get ugly, just plain ugly.

celebur Tue Jun 23, 2009 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 610383)
This is something I keep an eye out for in slow-pitch, especially on those slow rollers in coed wreck. Sometimes the runner is a big burly guy who could knock Miss California (the former one) on her rear, and that could get ugly, just plain ugly.

Strangely, in coed rec SP, I have yet to see F4 attempt to cover 1B on such a play.

NCASAUmp Tue Jun 23, 2009 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 610383)
This is something I keep an eye out for in slow-pitch, especially on those slow rollers in coed wreck. Sometimes the runner is a big burly guy who could knock Miss California (the former one) on her rear, and that could get ugly, just plain ugly.

Had that happen just last night. Bubba hit a deep shot past the outfielders, rounded 1B, and WHAM! Sweet lil F3 got knocked to the ground. Bubba had enough time to pick her up back onto her feet and make it to 2B. We gave him 3B.

NCASAUmp Tue Jun 23, 2009 01:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by celebur (Post 610385)
Strangely, in coed rec SP, I have yet to see F4 attempt to cover 1B on such a play.

I've seen it only a handful of times, usually in the "upper levels," and sometimes by mistake. :D

celebur Tue Jun 23, 2009 01:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp (Post 610388)
I've seen it only a handful of times, usually in the "upper levels," and sometimes by mistake. :D

With the coed rec SP around here, this would probably only happen by mistake regardless of level!

IRISHMAFIA Tue Jun 23, 2009 01:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp (Post 610387)
Had that happen just last night. Bubba hit a deep shot past the outfielders, rounded 1B, and WHAM! Sweet lil F3 got knocked to the ground. Bubba had enough time to pick her up back onto her feet and make it to 2B. We gave him 3B.

Well, if Bubba took the time to help brush the dirt off, he may have scored!

NCASAUmp Tue Jun 23, 2009 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 610401)
Well, if Bubba took the time to help brush the dirt off, he may have scored!

Nah, Bubba wasn't all THAT fast. I even thought 3B was pushing it a little, but that was my partner's call. :)

IRISHMAFIA Tue Jun 23, 2009 03:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp (Post 610402)
Nah, Bubba wasn't all THAT fast. I even thought 3B was pushing it a little, but that was my partner's call. :)

What was that which just soared over your head?:rolleyes:

NCASAUmp Tue Jun 23, 2009 03:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 610412)
What was that which just soared over your head?:rolleyes:

Wow... I totally missed that one!

ronald Tue Jun 23, 2009 04:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp (Post 610417)
Wow... I totally missed that one!

Yes you did. :):D

Well, Mike and Alt Ump Steve put forth the two positions. Malcolm stated same thing as AltUmpSteve. I said I would go with USC but that is cause that is not spirit of fair play in my mind. My understanding is in the Pac 10 they went with Steve's thinking.

Ron

SethPDX Tue Jun 23, 2009 06:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 610401)
Well, if Bubba took the time to help brush the dirt off, he may have scored!

He's on fire today, folks!

Of course, he is getting set up pretty nicely. ;)


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