Gerry Davis Stance for softball
 

I have been using this stance for softball for the past two years. I have been more locked in than ever. When I go work ASA I go back to the traditional box stance but I feel so much more confident in the GD than anything. I know it locks my head in and I have yet to miss high or low "consistantly" maybe here or there.. I just wanted to hear what everone else thought about the stance

Love it. Been using it in youth ball for 4 yrs. Started using it in college when it became approved. Very quiet, easier on the quads, and looks strong IMO. Can't imagine going back.

What is the Gerry Davis stance?
 

Can you describe it for me? Is it different than what some refer to as the scissors? Can you clear the catcher with the Gerry Davis stance? I believe it was a couple of years ago during the WCWS that the home plate umpire got in the way of the catcher fielding a foul ball around the plate because he couldn't clear the catcher. I believe he was using the scissors stance.

Read this. It should answer most questions you have.

Still using the standard heel/toe stance because that is what I am most comfortable with.

Why do you not use the GD stance when you call softball? I see absolutely no reason to change stances because of the type of game you are working. Stick with what works best and is most comfortable for you.

I do use it in softball. NCAA PONY FED and a few others dont care. ASA and ISC seem to care. The ASA guys around here want us to remain in the heel toe box.

Why I don't like it:

Tends to lock an umpire into the same position whether the batter is 4'0" or 6'2". The umpire's eyes will always be at the same height, but the strike zone would need to move.

In softball, there seems to be more body movement (as opposed to just the glove) by the catcher than in the little ball game. Because you are set further behind the catcher, the movement shouldn't bother you more, but I would think the outside corner may be harder to see.

Places the hands on the knees/legs. I am not a big fan of broken fingers, hands or, ouch, knuckles. While keeping one's hands loose and hanging does not guarantee complete safety, is does reduce the force of impact and likely reduce the level of severity being hit by the ball may cause.

JMHO

I can respect that. the only real response I have is: I dont work it from way back like the baseball system. I work the slot from no more than a foot away from the catcher. I know that the clinics I have been to taught us to make the chin in line with the bottom of the catchers head thus putting it in the same posistion everytime for each catcher. I also dont miss outside pitches because I work the slot and closer to the catcher like I previously said. So I work a "modified" gerry davis I should more accurately say.

Again I can respect what your saying and I appriciate your input :)

I can't imagine a correct strike zone w/o adjusting to the height of each batter.

If you ever see me on the field with my hands on my knees, call medical. :eek:

I just started using it this year and I really like it. I'm more consitent in my zone and have even had coaches remark about my consitency to me. I really feel better during tournament games during game 7, 8... My timing is better with it too. I do take the weight off my knees just before the pitch arrives so I can react better during as passed ball etc. I'm sold.

I used it pretty extensively a few weeks ago in mens FP because my catcher was very large and blocked me too much in the slot. It got to be a pain so I went to this stance and it was fine.

I dont believe "locking in" to be as important as baseball umpires sometimes make it seem to be. In fact, its not an issue in my opinion.

I dont believe low inside and outside are as good with davis as with slot with this stance FOR ME... so I prefer slot unless I'm being screened.

I do believe that because of God, Momma, and McDonalds we are all shaped a little different and have different issues and this stance could very well work best for a percentage of umpires; obviously it should be allowed in ASA as an alternate allowable stance.

This is a tool we are not allowed in ASA, which is prone to removing tools from umpires, and that is to the detriment of the organization because some use this the best; similar to a knee, etc... so allow it.

Oh and I took a hellacious foul ball to my mask in the box, one I would not have taken in the slot. And the dude was throwing about 65 I my bell was rung. I let the catcher know I took that shot because he blocks me inside and forces me to adjust.

I'm glad to see somebody posting on this subject. I went to the GD a few years ago and have never felt more confident behind the plate. I back up pretty far, too.

However, when I started (in baseball) back in the 1960s, I was strictly "over the top" (with a balloon) like most umpires in those days. After years of that, I found moving to the "slot" very difficult when it became the norm. I felt too close and couldn't really judge the outside corner. I know that others will scoff, but I didn't feel confident on high pitches and tended to lower the top of the zone.

With the GD, I can still go up or down with the various heights of batters. I also get a better view of what happens in terms of checked swings, balls hitting of the batter's foot, and so on. To me, the only drawback of the GD is that with my hands on my thighs, my arms tend to lock and not "give" when balls hit them. Maybe I'm doing that part wrong. Of course, I agree with the other posters who say that you have to use what works for yourself.

Incidentally, I used the GD in the 2006 ASA 16u finals in NJ. The state UIC told me that he didn't understand how I could see the pitch in that position, but he didn't ask me to change.

Wade - taking a shot like that in men's ball and he's only throwing 65, you should feel lucky. Watch some of the big boys you're starting to see in ISC ball, 65 is slow.
That being said, I've been lucky too. A couple of year's ago in a college game, I took a foul off of dead center on the mask. I lost about 2 innings - so I'm sure there was some sort of concussion.

I like the slot with a box stance. My knees prefer something similar to the modified GD stance that Kcg described. So, in those tournaments where I'm working more than 1-on, 1-off, I'm going with the modified GD stance.

Yeah, sure, blame it on the foul ball :rolleyes:

OK, so I used to have a pony tail and spent close to 3 years on a commune. I'm not spaced out all the time, I'm just :cool: (just ask the grandkids) - and since the day job no longer is storage management, I can truly say I'm no longer a space cadet:D

pfff couple of innings!

I had my excuse for the rest of the game! :D

And I wasnt afraid to use it neither

So I guess it's worked out well for you since this post. :)

Sorry, I was looking around for info on GD, and came up with that thread. Unfortunately, the link on that thread is no longer valid, but I believe I found the referenced article here.

So I guess it's worked out well for you since this post.

Hey! Good sleuthing. In October 2005 I asked about the GD, and then from the responses read about it. And in 2006 I tried, liked it, and stuck with it.

I learned something from this thread, though: that there are GD shin guards with a place for your hands. I get the GD catalog and didn't even see those.

I have them and use them at times. THey are very bulky. I call them my Goalie shin guards.

They are good shin guards though. Never felt a thing. They also have a ankle guard that I really like.

Lately I've stuck with my honigs, but I wore those for 2 seasons.

The GD allows you to adjust your head height, if you want. Just spread your legs a bit wider if you want your head height to be a bit lower. You can slide your hands up your legs slightly if you do this.

I am baseball only, have tried it, and it doesn't work for me. I'm a traditional box, heel-to-toe guy. I just think it is a personal choice. I can't believe an organization would try to dictate how one works the plate -- the results of whatever you do should be what speaks on the matter.

I used this stance this weekend with some men's ball, modified a bit for softball as in:
-in the slot
-closer than an arm length+
-my thumb was behind the edge of my leg guards instead of my hands just above knees - this protects against what I think is a possibility of broken fingers.

The only difference that I'm aware of is that I was set up higher than I normally am. I don't know yet whether I'm a fan of this stance yet, but... I intend to use it again, maybe even next weekend in some youth ball. My knees certainly feel better, I had just as good a look at the low pitches (based on partner feedback).

Got a look at the new Gerry Davis guards; I have the old ones.

VERY sharp.

I Just want to say that regaurdless what stance I use the slot. Its the only way to see the pitches. This is also How its taught for baseball and anyone who tells you different has not been working it correctly.

I was researching this stance after reading this string and it appears that the GD stance would be easier on the knee's.
I have bad knee's and worry that they will force me to quit umpiring sooner than I would like. I don't think it will be anytime soon, but somewhere down the road.
Am I correct that it is easier on your knee's?

It can be easier on the knees. However if you work a lot of youth ( like Id say 12u ball) then the amount you would have to spread your legs out to get down that low is probably be just as uncomefortable. However the pressure is on the outside of the knee not the actual tendens and critical parts. I personally have no problems with it

Knees? If you are having problems with your knees, you might want to check your execution, not the stance. Early season issues with your quads I could see, but the issue with which I am most concerned is the back.

Actually, I've seen some exaggerated wide stances that hurt my knees just looking at them. Even with ASA's heel-toe, GPA stance, the concern is more upon a slight turn of the toes out so that the knees basically "toggle" over the feet instead of being forced into an uncomfortable position. I concentrate on that and my knees feel little to no pressure. And that is from someone who has a bad one and just got a new one last year.

agreed I actually turn my feet out like that in whatever stance I am working. no matter what is going on that helps with your knees and adjustment in the head height.

You guys are dead on about the turning of the toes. It helps. I forgot to do it in one game where I used the GD and boy did my knees and back hurt.

My feet re actually closer together than most. If I get too wide then my knee's will really bark at me. I have even been told by UIC's that my feet should be wider because it "looks" as if it would be harder on my knee's, but it's not. I do turn my feet out as well.
This is what works for me and my knee's. I have had a replacement in my left knee for over 10 years now. Hopefully I can keep going :)

Thanks everyone!!!

"I have bad knees and worry that they will force me to quit umpiring sooner than I would like."

Most of the guys I played baseball with in the dead ball era turned to SP softball by their mid-20s, but one guy went directly into baseball umpiring, eventually doing mostly ECAC/NCAA games. Last fall, at age 60, he had both knees replaced. He says it was 35 years of up and down behind the plate. I don't know whether he expects to resume umpiring.

Interesting. My orthopaedic surgeon told me the up and down wasn't an issue, but more of the pounding of starting, stopping and reversing directions.

Actually, from my rehab, I would think the up and down was more theraputic to one's knees than harmful if in a good stance.

As someone with a bad knee (that includes a dislocated kneecap 2 years ago), I could call balls and strikes all day. It's the coming out quickly from the plate that causes 100% of my lower extremity issues.

I turn my toes slightly out, too. It does cost me a shot or two on the calf every season, but that's OK -- it only really hurts when you take one in the unprotected shin (which happened to me once back when I thought it was cool to work softball with little to know gear -- I was young and stupid).

My friend said something like "all that up and down," but he might have used the phrase broadly to refer to all the various movements required of a plate umpire. I agree that just going up and down isn't likely to destroy knees unless you're constantly going way down, as in deep knee bends. It may be that after his knees were damaged by other movements or blows, he noticed pain when moving up and down and attributed the damage to that type of motion.

Most of the athletes I know whose knees are gone either suffered blows to the knee (mostly from football) or constant pounding within the knee (basketball on hard surfaces).

For some reason, my knees have held up well, and I've never had any problems with them. A few years ago, however, after a couple of slow-pitch marathons, it was my feet that were killing me, mainly from the incorrect way I was standing.