skull session
 

I will be in OK city this week. There is a skull session planned. Anyone have something that I can bring up to be discussed and answered by NUS.

Thanks, Ron

Skull session!!! Better wear a helmet, some of those folks have some pretty hard heads.

But now that you asked, bring up dumping the LBR and see what type of look appears on their face......and then run for your life :D

Ok to cite the author of that one>:)

After you get done with LBR.. ask them about exploring the idea of incorporating more NCAA mechanics.

My friend is going there too.. have fun. Wish I were going!

Sure. And I guarantee they have no more a valid answer keeping it than I can get anywhere else.

BTW, "because it is a live ball game" isn't a valid answer.

Says who? :D

Can't you read? Says Mike!

How about adjusting 8-2-F-6 so BRs do not need to have eyes in the back of their heads to avoid being out due to F2 muffing the 3K ball?

That was my rule change proposal the same year they dumped "intentional" from the book. I got creamed!!!

Bad timing.

Lets get rid of the blue pants and go to all grey, nation wide.

If you want ASA umpires to act like NCAA umpires, then the ASA umpires have to look like NCAA umpires. :p

Make that outside pitch hittable, so Kruc doesn't throw down his headset in disgust and start mumbling to himself and I don't keep breaking tv sets.

Keep the existing plate and draw two lines say 4 inches in from the left and right edges running lengthwise with the plate. The line draw on the left side (3rd base side) is the outside corner edge for LH batters. Use the opposite line as outside corner for RH batters. In either case, keep inside corner as it is for both.

Something for everybody. (especially 5' 2" DD)

to some of the good ideas... but look good doing it...

Mike,

Is "that is how we do it in FP" an ok answer?

Ron

Those were NCAA umpires. ASA elite umpires do better.:D

As a follow up. Four of the WCWS umpires are ISF and elite. The one KruK mumbled about is not according to ASA info.

I would like to see the slow pitch "illeagal pitch" removed. That is unless the pitcher commits an illeagal act.

I like the LBR, so it can stay. ut slow pitch illeagal for height -- that should go.

Bugg

It is hitable.

You mean right about where the lines to the BB are presently?

So we can't hear Kruk at present. That is a problem in what way...? :confused:

The lines will be gone after the first inning. Then it's back to umpire judgement (which it always would be, even with these lines).

I want outside strikes to be 4 inches closer to the batter.

I 'm not talking about chalk in the dirt.

I am permanently painting lines on the existing plate.

Draw a plate out on your desk. Point of plate pointing at you the PU. Measure 4 inches in from the left side. That is going to be the outside edge for lefties for your strike zone. Do the same on the right side. That is the outside edge for righties.

The existing inside edge of the strike zone is where you currently have it.

This change compensates for the additional width of the softball, allows the batter to still use a semblance of form in getting good contact on the ball, yet keeps all other aspects of the game the same.

Don't change men's slow pitch or men's fastpitch, but consider this for women's fastpitch.

I play in coed with no limit for guys - sky ball sucks. Gotta keep the 12.

Huh? That makes absolutely no sense even if it were an illegal pitch.:confused:

You like longer, slower games for no apparent reason? Okay, just stay away from my tournaments.:D

Height limits are not something historic for ASA. It used to be unlimited and the number of runs scored was about the same as your local JV game. If anything, the 12' arc is the radically high of all SP organizations right now, so I doubt they will go backwards.

So, you want to narrow the strike zone by 8 inches? Yeah, just what this game needs, more boring walks.

The strike zone now and always has allowed for the width of the ball. You have not discovered anything new here. And if you DD cannot hit the pitches called strikes, she needs someone to teach her how to hit because they are very hitable pitchers.

So, you want to narrow the strike zone by 8 inches?


No I'm narrowing the strike zone by 4 inches of the outside edge.

I disagree. Pitches down the opposite batters box stripe are not hitable, particularly by small females.

Depends on how the catcher sets up and catches it.

If she catches it over her shoulder and back, or if she is set up way outside.-- she makes it look very unhittable and look like a ball

If shes off center an inch or two and if she holds it out in front.. coaches seem to always say "that was your pitch, gotta swing at that..."

Dunno though... I'm no coach. :cool:

That bat is almost 3 feet long! Lay the bat across the plate, and it goes box-to-box. Even a midget can stretch her arms long enough to reach it!

Actually, its 33-34 inches long. Those 2-3 inches make a big difference when you are talking about a bats sweets spot.

I didn't say the pitch wasn't touchable, I said it wasn't hitable, with any semblance of form. Some of you slow pitch guys are 6'4" with wing spans from here to there, and plenty of upper body strength. You don't notice the problem.

Females don't have the comparable upper body strength and have to cast out like crazy to reach that pitch and when they do, dink to F5. Their hips and butt are no longer able to provide any power.

Do you remember the hitting drill where you stood near a wall and put the knob against your bellow button and the opposite end of the bat against the wall and attempted full speed swings without hitting the wall? The purpose of that drill was to keep you from casting out.

I'm sorry, reccer, but IMO, your suggestion about shrinking the strike zone is absurd. JMO, though.

Two words.


Pujols

Like many of the SP players FP usually mock, he wants to play t-ball

Dakota: No problem, I figured since we added those two pitcher lines it might fly.

Wade: I hated that drill. It was not real world realistic. I still see his home run that basically ended Lidge as a closer in Houston.

Like many of the SP players FP usually mock, he wants to play t-ball

Mike, just to be clear, spent 3 nites* a week playing on multiple SP teams and tourneys on the weekend before we had kids, it was the best time of my life. By contrast, hitting FP is just theory with me, never faced one that you couldn't plug in. "She" puts it in the same spot, same speed and I wear her out.

*that's how I spell it.

To quote The Office...

"That's what she said!"

A few years ago at the ASA National UIC Clinic they presented a study about that "outside" pitch.

I believed they used a 14-16 yo. Positioned in the center of the BB, she solidly hit the pitch approx. 6" outside the plate.

Have your DD stand in the middle of the BB. That should put her toes about 20 inches from the edge of the plate. Even if her wrists only reach the edge of the BB, there is still 10" of that 33" bat beyond the far edge of the plate. And that is if she is just standing there. She strides into the pitch, there should be no problem getting the sweet spot outside of the plate.

And those pitches are more hitable than the high and low corners which is why umpires pick it up, push it down and take it out.

It common knowledge and theory that the outside is THE hittable spot.
That is why pitchers at all levels "brush em off" the plate. It is to get ownership of the outside. The rule of thumb is "the outside belongs to the pitcher". They cant allow the batter to own that.

This is basic info and nothing new to most of the people involved in sports involving a bat and ball.

Pitching 101 BASIC BASIC BASIC info.

Alright guys, I will run Mike's test on DD and report back.

Wade, I think Tom Glavine and Tim McCarver might disagree with you. Speaking of McCarver, here is a website for you:

Shut Up Tim McCarver!!!** Tim McCarver @ ShutUpTimMcCarver.com

[QUOTE=reccer;607794]
Wade, I think Tom Glavine and Tim McCarver might disagree with you. Speaking of McCarver, here is a website for you:

[QUOTE]

I rest my case...

If this putz didn't happen to fall into the catching position for Steve Carlton, he never would have received the attention he did in the MLB. The only reason anyone paid attention to him then was because Carlton wouldn't talk and McCarver wasn't embarassed to place himself in front of the vacant microphone. And even then he talked out his *** making little to no sense.

Results of static test in the kitchen, not at the ballpark:

16 year old 5' 2" female subject was positioned 20 inches from home plate. Her grip was not choked up. Using her regular swing with no stride ("sit and spin") careful NCASA-- this is my daughter ;) her bat does not reach the far edge of the plate, let alone your strike zone edge. Further, even if she casts her arms straight out, the bat does not reach 10 inches beyond the plate.

Gonna be awhile before I can field test this. She is in one of those 16 year old moods.

I wonder how tall was the subject in the test. If you have a link to that study I would love to read it.

She must have short arms or a short bat; or both.

Wrists at edge of batter's box means the wrists are 23 inches from the far edge of the plate.

So, your daughter has no arms? If you place the bat at her toes, the end of it would be 4" from the outside edge of the plate. So, for the bat to not reach the outer edge of the plate, your daughter's arms must be less than 4" long. Hell, I'd be moody, too.

Ha.

Could you tape the next session and youtube it?

Trust me... I wasn't even THINKING about saying something about your daughter. Some things are still sacred to me. :)

Not much else, though. :eek:

I know its the wrong forum to be having an in depth hitting discussion, but, briefly, slam that back elbow down in to the slot and see where your hands are relative to your toes. I bet they are a whole lot closer than you thought they were. Granted, there has to be a slow down of hip rotation and some casting to reach that outside pitch, but DD's swing would be beyond absurd using Mike's 20 inches from one side of the plate to 10 inches on the other.

Do some google searches for "hitting casting problems" or go to my favorite batspeed.com for in depth hitting discussions.

I'll see about the youtube. Might be a fun summer project.

Yes, but in your studies and calculations, have you taken into account the fact that outs are good and hits are bad and time consuming?

Never mind. Found her.

World's Tallest Woman - Urban Legends

a pitch 6 inches outside on the line is not a strike. FORGET IT.

When the braves got 3 inches outside all day, no one consistentyl hit homeruns or doubles and triples. so the same thing applies here.

You do realize that hitting an outside pitch requires a full extension of the arms? Not talking about a batting stance.

When you played SP, did you ever notice that when some hitters were fooled on a short pitch, they would step into their swing and hit a pitch that was going to hit in front of the plate for a solid line drive, often up the middle? That full extension is what put the power behind what many expect to be a weak hit.

But if your DD is going to stick with a tight, compact swing, you are partially correct. The ball is hitable, just not by your DD.

Outside pitch? A good hitter will put it into the opposite field. A not so good hitter...well this is a competitive sport, is it not?

Even on 3-0?!??!?!?!!? :confused: :cool: ;)

If it wasn't a strike on 0-0, it's not a strike on 3-0! :)

I do realize it if the outside pitch is 6 inches off the plate.

Until DD gets in a better mood, (or I buy her the car I promised if she led the city in something (she was second in SB's), these videos will have to do.

This video is a big Mike sized guy. Notice his back arm is not fully extended at point of contact. Wonder what he would say if I moved his T 6 inches further out?

YouTube - Hitting Outside Pitch #2

If you don't like scum of the earth baseball guys, here is one of my favorites (and your favorite announcer:) Listen for the words "don't cast out". Freeze the frame at point of contact. Look at the location of the back elbow.

YouTube - Jessica Mendoza Softball Training - HIT: Outside Pitch : Softball.com

Even if the runner starts running down to 1B on their own without you calling it?? :confused:;):cool:

If it wasn't a strike on 0-0... :cool:

Even if they duck under it!?!?!? Lemmee guess..

Boy thats some weak sauce right there. Who ever heard of that rule?

:cool:

:D

Are we talking about the same thing? I'm missing something here... :)

I'm saying if you wouldn't call it a strike on the first pitch, why would you call it a strike when it's 3-0?

Maybe I'm just slow this morning...

Couldn't care less about baseball.
JM is talking about two different things. She refers to the outside pitch, but her demonstration and mechanics concern opposite field hitting, not necessarily being able to hit the pitch off the plate. Of course, players terminology usually reflects their training and outside influences which is probably why there is the continuing reference to "mound" and "rubber" on a softball field.

You need to remember, stepping into the pitch is relatively new to the women's/girl's game. Fifteen-twenty years ago, many of the girls playing the game had a swing which more resembled a batter standing erect and dragging the bat around with hip rotation. Usually, it was only at the higher levels of play that you saw players attack the ball. Once the NCAA really developed a good softball program along with the Olympics did more people take the women's game in a more serious manner and it has been soaring since then. And with that advancement came the advanced mechanics which, IMO, is a good thing.

However, you want to discuss ideal mechanics of a text-book swing. My discussion is purely whether the pitch is hitable. If the batter has two strikes and knows the the pitcher is getting the outside corner and maybe a bit more, are you going to just concede the strike, or teach your batter how to hit the damn thing?

Look at JM's feet. She is standing closer to the plate which is okay. But I would be willing to bet that if she had to hit a pitch off the plate, she wouldn't have a problem.

Good lord man, have you never heard of the 3-0 courtesy strike?

What NUS did you go too!!?!!?!

Let's see... "Courtesy runner?" Nope...

"Courtesy Internet?" Nope...

"Courtesy flush?" I know what that is, but no...

Nope, nothing about the courtesy strike in the rule book. :D

I concede that stepping into the pitch is necessary when its off the plate, and I have some homework to do on this concept.

The Blue team's pitcher in the video is going to U of Houston. (Red team's is going to U of Texas) The first game of the series Blue team's pitcher lived on that stripe in the opposite batters box and Blue gave it to her. All 4 of our lefties were powerless to do anything about it except for a futile last minute lunge. Completely shut us down because we did not know how to handle it.

Game 2 was a different story for DD with a new PU. He was not giving that off the plate pitch as a strike and DD had two solid slap hits.

Something I haven't pointed out yet that you probably have surmised is that DD is a 100% slapper. My sense is that rather than step towards the pitcher she will need to step more towards the plate with her crossover step.

If you have a suggestion on this crossover step, please let me know. Specifically, as long as she doesn't step on or in front of the plate, will Blues have a problem? More specifically, say on the left crossover step the toes land in the 6" area between the plate and the stripe with the heel landing on the stripe. Is she still in the box?

I am enjoying the discussion. Thank you.

Yes. To be out of the box, her entire foot needs to be out of the box and on the ground at the time of contact.

What many slappers do is time the contact with the ball so the foot has not touched down yet (supposedly). Word to the coach: the foot out of the box is difficult for the umpire to see, so if the timing is close, it is unlikely to ever be called.

Yes, she is in the box.

However, as previously noted, I'm just stating the pitch is hitable. As a slapper, that obviously isn't your DDs forte, but you cannot change everything based on different batter's manner.

If your DD isn't interested, find a player who likes to lay into the ball and have her swing at a teed-ball on the opposite BB line just above waist height. Then adjust to chest and knee high between the plate and the line. See which ball she hits more solidly. Obviously she will need to be up on the plate in the BB.

There were national championships for women's college softball prior to the NCAA deciding it was OK for women to play sports? The high school game is over 35 years old in some states? The NCAA didn't develop a "good softball program" it was already there. Don't give the NCAA credit for popularizing or improving any women's sport when they excluded women athletes for years.

In 1966, my wife played in a local softball league that had over 400 girls in it.

The evolution of women's college sports

Association for Intercollegiate Athletics for Women at Wikipedia

AIAW Champions

The Brakettes have been in existence for over 60 years.

There was a pro softball league in 1976.

Some Softball History scroll down for the women's listings.

My point is that the women's/girl's fastpitch game is older and has a much broader history than you can see on ESPN during the NCAA championships. Softball players have been "stepping into the pitchl" both literally and figuratively for much longer than most people are aware of and with a whole lot more athletic ability and talent than they receive credit for. The people who were involved in the women's/girls game 40 (or more) years ago were pretty serious about the game.

I wasn't giving the NCAA credit for developing the game, just their part of it. The coaches that were involved in the game were great and never really given the credit they were due. The kicker is that until people were sucked into the almighty scholarship scam, much of the coaching was provided by unwilling PhysEd teachers, baseball coaches or the father of a player. At the HS level, the baseball folk considered softball not much more than afterschool babysitting for the girls. Many still believed a ball field was no place for a female.

In the mid-60's around here, high schools declared softball as a very unladylike game and removed it from the extracurricular/sports calendar. They replaced it with lacrosse!!! Yeah, some real intelligent people there.

Marvin, if you noticed this sentence "Usually, it was only at the higher levels of play that you saw players attack the ball", it was my way of acknowledging the teams and players of which you speak. Maybe I wasn't clear enough to that point. Those to whom I was trying to refer were the HS players and the few local leagues out there.

I am familiar with softball in the past and those women deserve a lot of credit, but unfortunately, it usually only comes from inside the softball community.

Oh, so that's what that strike is called in slow pitch when the pitcher finally gets it across the plate and the batter is nice enough not to swat the dang thing out of the park. I always wondered what that was called. :D