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coach pulling out the rule book
After I made a judgment call the coach did not like he pulled out the rule book to read. He did not come out of the dug and play did not stop.
I have always heard that a coach should not be allowed to go to the rule book during a game. Is this an umpire thing or is there a specific rule (I could not find one) or ASA code? |
Devil's Advocate
i'm going to go out on a limb and say if the coach looked something up, did not further argue it or otherwise cause play to stop, why keep him or her from learning something (or learning what they originally thought was wrong :D)? As one of the sayings I've learned on here goes, why look for trouble that doesn't exist?
I've never seen any rule in basketball, softball, soccer, or volleyball that precludes a coach from reading a rulebook during the game. That said, I would 100% agree that if a coach brings it out on the field or tries to use it to show up an official, that needs to be dealt with immediately. |
There's nothing illegal (or wrong!) with coaches reading the book in their dugout. If a coach comes out of the dugout with it and is shoving it in my face, they are probably going to be done for the game.
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Heck...for all I know, every coach I have had this year has pulled out his rule book and read it in the dugout. I would never know. I have too many REAL issues to worry about between the lines to ever notice what goes on in a dugout.
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I have on occasion suggested to coaches that they check the rule book (in the dugout).
As to bringing it on the field, the reason, timing, and demeanor are more important to me than what the coach may or may not have in his/her hand. Showing up the umpire is cause for ejection, not merely having a rule book in the hand. I do understand the traditional view on this; it has just not been an issue for me in practice. But, in the dugout? No problem; have at it. He might learn something. |
hrmmm... I thought coaches already knew everything. just ask them!
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Like I said It did not bother me, I was just wondering if there was some rule or code I did not know about. It was the first time I have noticed such an action (it probably happens all the time (I was BU so it was right in front of me). After the game a young ASA umpire (many years hardball) ask why I allowed him to do that and he would have said something. My response was, "why? I rather just have the girls play ball".
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There is nothing specific about a coach using a rule book during a game.
As Tom said, it's all about the manner in which that rulebook is used. If a coach comes onto the field waving the book and demanding that I show him where a rule is to back up a call, he is going to have plenty of time to look it up for himself as he waits in the parking lot for the game to be over. I had a JV coach this year that came to me between innings with the rule book out and asked me, very politely, to show her where something was that she questioned from the prior inning. I asked her to put the book away and told her that I would be happy to talk with her after the game. She complied and we continued the game. |
judegment call = no rules question... unless the interpretation of a rule being applied calls for judgement and your rule application or interpretation is wrong. as for a general purpose ... anytime there is a question that you arent 100 % sure of about a rule and a coach brings a book out why not prevent a protestable situation and look it up? Protests are demeaning and just generally not a good thing.. if your 100% positive your right then ok ... but if your not then check the book. as for the OP if it was a judgement call and no rule application.. this guy shouldnt be coaching if he istryin to throw a rule book out at you...
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Let him spend his game time doing something he should have already done such as learning the rules. It will keep him quiet and out of your hair! If he then desires on field classroom instruction from you while toting his new found rule book, toss him. |
I've had both situations - a rule book where I ejected and a rule book where I showed them the rule. So IMO, it is a case by case basis thing. I think showing up an umpire is an ejection... so it will depend on what exactly is going on.
I'd think it best to leave the myth/implication out there that it is ALWAYS automatic just to keep em honest. |
There are very few game management situations where the word "automatic" applies. ;)
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Game is delayed, all are watching you thumb through the book, partner is most probably thinking "What the hell?"... The reason I use this example is because if an umpire is unsure of a rule, he probably will have trouble finding it in the book(lack of studying?). If one is sure of the rule, no book is needed......Or clueing in the coach can wait till after the game |
Not to mention the issue of where you have a ruling that requires you to string two or three rule references and an RS/AR together in order to prove you are correct. That takes quite a bit of time during a game, and in my opinion, makes it look like you don't know what you're doing out there.
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Ok so now I know there is no rule. Here was the situation. The last few year our association has placed less season umps on final games for all-star tournaments with some disastrous(yet funny) results. At the tournament I worked this weekend the director request seasoned umps. So my partner and I (both have done nationals) did the 10gold championship.
The field was typical rec, no fences and tents for the snack bar area set up about 200 feet in fair territory down the third base line. We went over the ground rule and explain that if a ball roles in to that area it would be a GRD. The coaches did not protest. Of course a ball was hit in to the tents and as the BR rounded second we killed it and awarded second. The coach came out to me a said, "there is a rule in the book that says you can award her more bases". I said yes coach that is spectator interference, however we agreed at the beginning of the game this would be a GRD. So to be honest with you I have no idea why he went to the book. I explained to him the only two things this could be, but oh well that's 10rec. |
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Someone hits a ball that far, give them the dang home run. |
I had a Varsity HS DH a few years ago...The head coach(also the AD) had the flu and was home, the Asst coach had injured her ankle teaching PE and was at the hospital, The JV team was playing elswhere.
The principal met me and my partner in the Parking lot to tell us the sitch. She asked if they had to forfeit. I said, that she could be the coach as long as she got some school colors on. She pulled out the rules book so many times because she was so confused. She had all kinds of questions between innings...trying to learn. What a nice lady. She could not have been nicer! She complimented us on our knowledge and hard work and on how we were helping her learn softball! It was all we could do not to crack up! Her team swept the DH because their pitchers were amazing. Joe In Missouri PS I did not eject her! |
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I am sure the other coach would have come out if we did anything but put her at second. |
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200 yards - bad call ;) Thats a helluva hit. |
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Second, it all depends upon how they approach me. Nicely, I'll ask them to put it away. Coming at me in a not-so-nice manner, I'm telling them to put it away. If they're being an Adam-Henry about it...buh-bye. |
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coach read?
Clarification 10 u coach:
A. Coach can read? B. Coach has a rule book? C. Coach stayed in dugout to read said rule book? Give this coach a medal, I am impressed!:D |
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