Mandatory slide crap
 

So the next time someone says something about a mandatory slide rule, particularly at the plate, I will refer them to my young friend Meagan, the catcher who was taken straight off the field via ambulance in my game yesterday with a neck injury (likely minor, but a minor neck injury is akin to minor surgery), some cuts inside her mouth from her braces, and likely a concussion.

Girls 16U FP, largest tournament of the year, playing on all kinds of fields. This one is enclosed but 300' fences. B1 hits one approximately 279 feet. She's coming around third at a full head of steam. Throw to catcher is to first base side of home plate, so catcher has to reach back for it and then dive across at the runner, who is sliding.

Wham. Bam. No thank you ma'am.

Sorry, John, but ........ what's your point and where does the "must slide" issue come into it?

Obviously, the runner should have been sliding. What else should she have been doing, going in like a line backer?

Softball is a dangerous sport.

Sometimes requiring a slide is probably more safe than not. I had a sitch last night where a shortstop said next time that runner decides not to slide when I'm trying to throw it to first for the double play, I'm gonna hit him. Not the first time, and it wasn't an obvious attempt to break up a double play, but still....

Hope you have counsel on a retainer, 'cause it isn't worth my house and family.

That is where warn or throw the SS for USC and make sure all participants know that I am more than willing to offer testimony to the statement showing predetermination and maybe even suggesting a nasty, er....I mean good lawyer to the injured player's family. :rolleyes:

The point I was trying to make is that is pointless to have a mandatory slide rule. This runner did slide, legally, without malice...and catcher left in an ambulance.

Tell it to the girl at a regional I worked in 2003...the one with the compound leg fracture who hasn't been able to play sports since.

Tell it to the catcher who left the field yesterday in the ambulance.

I'm sure we can find many more examples. It can be a dangerous sport, and making slides mandatory at any level is not going to make it any less dangerous.

One year olds shouldn't wear necklaces or play competitive sports.

Still, I must say that it's pretty impressive that he sired a son and played ball at such a young age. What a prodigy!

Not funny. At all.

I get sarcasm. I get humor. I'm often an @$$hole, so I get that. I even sometimes get impersonal internet humor.

This, however, is just way the %$#@ over the line, even if it concerned someone I didn't know.

A "hey John, you %$cked up" on the board, or a PM, or hell an e-mail or a phone call (I'm all over the web AND the internet, so it wouldn't be hard) would have worked just fine.

I meant that rhetorically, but there are situations where a slide would be the better protection for the runner, i.e. the play I described in my earlier posting.

This was uttered in a USSSA men's slow-pitch travel team league. I told the SS (who is a fellow umpire by the way) I'm ignoring that, but if it did happen he wouldn't be finishing the night on the field. I also went to the other team and suggested getting down or out of the way somehow to allow the throw to 1B for the double play, or I would be calling interference. I had to be careful with my choice of words both ways because I was working with my local Assistant UIC, and he's known to kowtow to the teams' whims in this league.

Sliding lawsuits? I wonder if its ever happened. It probably happened ONCE and was handled lickity split by the ins company, with a settlement, and the umpire never heard word one about it. No ones going to court, testifying, or going after some broke *** umpire. They want the easy settlement INS money. There is no need to worry about a retainer if you stick to working your covered events.. you already have one. I believe the reps example was they could "play softball with hand grenades and you are covered".

As to the OP.. have heard the horrific story dozens of times, could have almost guessed the OP was a segway to "the tragic event" which defines how bkb approaches the game in many respects - that accident means nothing in terms of my approach to the game.

Saw that story coming again too! It's horrible but sure gets thrown on here a bunch. It has nothing to do with sliding but reason why you don't wear jewelry!

As far as sliding, it's the safest, but not totally safe. No way I'm mandating someone slide. If they don't and cause INT or malicious contact I have a rule to cover it. Injuries are going to happen

Nope, this is bad advice. You shouldn't be telling the teams to do anything. Again, just setting yourself up.

What happens when the next runner "gets out of the way" by moving inside and the SS moves the same way for fear of an ejection and, BAM, the SS just did what you warned him not to do because of your suggestion to the other team.

Umpire the game and leave the coaching to the coaches.

The problem with mandatory slide rules is some of these girls don't know how to slide because they have never been taught to slide. I see it all the time: Girls who slow down and practically sit on the base; starting their slide too late and ramming their ankles into the base; head first slides that wind up being face first slides; sprained wrists for trying to break their fall, etc.

The coaches are often the ones who petition for a rule to be put in place. Mandatory slide rules are often seen in low-level rec ball. Perhaps if the threat of law suit was placed on the coaches, we would see less of that particular "rule".

I agree. Your intentions are good, as no one wants to see anyone get injured, much less deliberately. However, I've made it my own personal policy to never tell anyone to DO something. I simply tell them what they can't do (can't block the plate and hinder the runner without the ball, catch... can't kick the SS in the twig and giggleberries while sliding into 2B... can't call the my partner an ucking fidiot, even if you only said it to me...). I leave it up to their coaches to tell them the proper thing to do.

Sadly, a lot of the lower level ball is coached by someone whose only qualification is that they are most athletic at their school. They know nothing of the sport (then again, do most coaches EVER know anything of the sport?), much less how to teach it to a small child.

You also have the volunteers whose DD is on the team, and no one else wanted the job. We've all seen our fair share of those.

Mandatory slide rules are well-intended, but we all know where the path paved with such intentions inevitably leads.

I make it a policy at my pre-game to let both captains or managers know about the crash rule especially at home plate that the runner must give themselves up or slide to avoid being tagged when the defensive player has the ball. Avoiding injury isn't always possible even with all the latest advances that have been made in the last 10+ years.Also with the advent of better design with the hockey style mask it's possible that the catcher could still wear her mask while making the play at home.

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!!!

All of my daughters have grown up playing in a low level rec league sponsored by our church. The league has a mandatory slide rule on any "close" play. When my oldest daughter played, she was coached by a lady who is my volleyball officiating partner during the fall. She is a knowledgable softball coach and took almost one entire practice session teaching the players how to slide properly. My oldest daughter now helps coach in the league and one of her main jobs each year is teaching sliding.

I volunteer some time as an umpire each year and I have been in the league directors ear for the last five years to get rid of that mandatory slide rule. He just keeps insisting that it is for the safety of the players. So far, there have been no injuries as a result of it as far as I know, but I just cringe when I see some of the "slides" that are executed by these players.

Using your advice, I guess I might as well as go against what my UIC encourages, because that's what he did in a game before that. I'm not willing to eject players over comments like that in a league like that, because the UIC doesn't have a backbone when the teams think I'm unfairly ejecting them over stuff that umpires in USSSA tournaments don't even blink an eye at. You have to consider the level of play sometimes, and the politics sometimes if you want to survive in some of these leagues.

By the way, there are no "coaches" on these men's slow-pitch teams, just managers who go up for the pre-game flip. So if I were to leave the coaching to the coaches, who do I go to? The captains who were at the pre-game meeting who are going to tell me to f**k off and when I eject them, walk up to my partner who's the UIC and get me removed from the field for doing that? That's something to be considered at this type of level.

The only thing to consider is why in the name of softball you would voluntarily take that treatment. If that is what you have to work with, you might want to consider taking up golf or work for someone else.

Or consider telling the city to stop being so player-friendly and put comments from both the players and umpires on an even keel? Politics...besides if I were to give up the games in that city, it would be half my schedule. I can't make up that half in another city, and I would be looking at getting bit by a judge in family court over quitting a job over principle. It already bit some of us blues in the area.

You live in one ****ed-up place.

I would suggest a new pregame that entirely skips that segment. This is not recommended by any sanctioning body that I know of as a protocol for pregame. Save the clinics for preseason. Your job is to arbitrate rules - not conducted a pregame rules clinic using language you have not been instructed to use. Also you are boring everyone, including your partner, and wasting time. It serves no purpose whatsoever.

Sadly, that's just how it goes. It's also the reason why I don't call in one particular town - the league director does NOT back us up. My take on it? "Guess what, bub. You just lost one of the better umpires in the area." I'm fortunate enough to have plenty of ball to call elsewhere around here. However, not everyone is so fortunate.

And it's not a matter of him living in an f'ed up place. Anywhere you have lawyers, family court's a b1tch.

I find it hard to believe this would be a family court issue (assuming this isn't one's sole source of income). What are they going to do if you are not scheduled, put you in jail? Small town politics sucks which is why you will never see me living in a place like that. Too many damn communists to make it worth it.

It would be a family court issue if the payments stopped coming in so regularly.

A family court issue...the judge imputed my income from officiating into my child support payments, even though they are not a regular source of income (and he knows that being a soccer official himself). The ex's lawyer asked me if I had intended on reducing the number of games in the future in hopes of reducing child support obligations. I said no, and my lawyer said now that I said that, if I were to quit working in one city on principle, the judge might either leave the payments as they are, or increase them just on principle. Pretty f**ked up system we have in family court.

So, you do understand the legal ramifications for saying things you shouldn't! :D

It should be your policy not to present a clinic on information that the coaches/players should already know at your pregame. They have access to the rules, whether or not they bother with reading them. They should understand the rule, and understand the consequence of violating it. If not, you can have your teaching moment when you call the player out and eject them from the game.

So let me add a twist to this. Let's say you're calling in a league where there has been some bad blood between teams, and takeout slides are a-plenty. Would you address it in pregame ("fellas, I know there's been some frustration, but just letting you know that takeout slides and crashes won't be tolerated")? Or would you wait until the next incident?

I might...and this is again a very strong "might"....say something to the effect of "any USC will dealt with swiftly and according to the book," without going into any detail. More likely to do this in an adult game rather than a child's game.

I have no experience with slow pitch alleged adults, but in youth fast pitch, I would never consider giving a warning at the plate meeting.

Consistent injurious play should be addressed at a higher level than a pregame - the league should be involved. Everyones gotta go to work in the morning and if it is exceeding the scope of reasonable play for a recreational level of ball, then it still would be likely inappropriate at the pregame...since it could be perceived as fanning the flames when the league is involved. If the league is not involved then that is a bad situation you are allowing yourself to be in.. and one you cannot control with simple pregame BS.

My lawyer said I was screwed either way...if I said I would cut back, it would still have bit me in the a**. Lovely. :rolleyes:

And it usually isn't rec ball where the problem is, in slow-pitch. It's the middle level dolts who want to crawl up to the majors.

How are you knees and back feeling? Didn't your doctor tell you that if you don't cut back on the umpiring, you may end up in a wheelchair in the near future and not be able to earn a substantial living? Boy, that would cut into the support, wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

I would recommend cutting that part out. Keep it short, sweet, and to the point. You're there to take the lineups, cover any ground rules and league rules, and in Fed games in my area ask if the players are legally equipped and remind them the state emphasizes good sportsmanship.

I see too many umpires who want to put on rules clinics, remind the players to hustle on and off the field, make sure the coaches know to wait until we have granted their request for time, etc. None of that is necessary. They want to get the meeting over with and get the game started, so only go over the things you have to go over.

I actually had a coach THANK ME in the past few weeks for NOT going into all the "call time out, and we'll talk" bs. I just get it over with short and sweet.. intros ground rules time limit/ spec tourney rules which need to be addressed, you call it.. were off. No monologues or old hat boring BS. If they dont know .. thats their problem. They are still accountable. Talking about it pregame does not increase their responsibility or suddenly make them responsible.

Ditto!


During a plate conference last weekend I had a partner pointing out long shoelaces and reminding the players to keep them tied. He also rambled about shirts tucked in and taking off any jewlery.:eek:

AND STOP ALL TRYING TO ENDEAR YOURSELF TO THE PLAYERS. (Sorry for yelling this drives me nuts when I am the BU). Trust me the only reason these girls are laughing a your jokes is because they don't want to get on your bad side, and we as umpires should never put players in that position.

Hear! Hear! For most of our invitationals I don't even go into that much. They are all given a copy of the time limits and run rules. Your lineup coach, that the way you want them, that's official x2; ground rules; hustle on and off and have fun. Does anyone want to be visitors? If not, we flip a coin ONCE (and the winner better choose heads, since no one wanted to be visitors). If NFHS will ask coaches if players are legally equipped. I will ask the coaches if they have any questions, but usually won't ask my partner if he has anything else to add unless I know my partner will answer, "No," with a smile.

Anything else is a freakin waste of time. We have one of the great time wasters up here who talks for 3 minutes about how it is his field and his game and he WILL be respected and this and that. His field -- and by God it is HIS field, just ask him -- is always last to finish each round.

I learned a long time ago that reminding the coaches to get time out and come talk doesn't work...they'll go to the other umpire first half the time. "if we need to get together, we will" is, in my opinion, the first step toward a cop out -- besides, we usually don't say "if it's a judgment call we will not be getting together most of the time."

And now...this post has gone about four times longer than most of my pregames...