State and/or National Tournaments

wadeintothem

Tru_in_Blu wrote
Howdy,

I'll give it a shot from my experience.

Do you get paid for games and if so, how much?

Yes, I got paid quite a bit for NFHS but ASA championships are relatively low paying if you are just looking that the game fee itself.

[*]Are games 2, 3, or 4 person umpire mechanics?

In my experience they are normally 2 in the early rounds and some higher level tourneys move to 3 for the big games.

[*]Are there mileage reimbursements for umpires who travel long distances?

NFHS - Yes
ASA - sometimes - some tournaments I have gotten some mileage or travel pay but it is fairly rare.

[*]If you're going to do a weekend tournament, are there hotel/meal allowances?

Many regular tournaments I get that. Nationals or other big tournaments - if you are not local, you will usually get that.

[*]If you are doing a national tournament and are coming from a different state, are airline fares included?

Sometimes - there are different classifications of umpires and depending your classification your fare will be paid by your association, or you, or the host.

[*]I assume the strictest of dress codes are in place, including no "silver pants" 😉 and western cut pockets mandatory so no one can see the inner lining of your pockets 😮.
If there are no re-imbursable expenses [other than perhaps a game fee] does that mean that only financially independent people are likely to be officiating the games [especially a higher state or national levels]?

That is not my experience -no. In fact few umpires I know, least of all me, are of that classification.

[*]If you work a state or national tournament do you make money or lose money?

State and National tournaments are not the same at all. You will usually get paid less at a ASA National than a local metro or state tourney.
I would classify nationals a losing money deal but the experience is still awesome.

NFHS - you make money and good money.

[*]What path does the rec league umpire take to get to state/national level tournaments?
[/LIST]

You probably need to get in the travel ball association and start working Travel ball tournaments. Contact the UIC.

Essentially, your weekly tournies and leagues are your money makers. You wont make money and probably will spend much more than you do make at Nationals - but it is a blast.

Those are my answers as far as I know.

NCASAUmp

I'll give it a stab, too, from my own personal experience...

Tru_in_Blu wrote
Do you get paid for games and if so, how much?

Yes, but how much you get paid will depend upon what you're calling. Varying levels equals varying pay.

Tru_in_Blu wrote
Are games 2, 3, or 4 person umpire mechanics?

All depends on the UIC of the tournament. Most tourneys will start with 2-umpire systems, some will go with 3-umpire systems.

Tru_in_Blu wrote
Are there mileage reimbursements for umpires who travel long distances?

Sometimes, but to cut down costs, I've heard that some tournaments are trying to get away from that. The more local umpires a tourney has, the less it has to reimburse for mileage. Remember, you can also deduct mileage on your taxes.

Tru_in_Blu wrote
If you're going to do a weekend tournament, are there hotel/meal allowances?

Sometimes. It depends on the level and who's doing the hosting. You'll probably get some sort of a lunch provided to you, but don't get your hopes too high. Sometimes, it's just hot dogs. Others have more lavish spreads.

Tru_in_Blu wrote
If you are doing a national tournament and are coming from a different state, are airline fares included?

Again, my understanding is that they're trying to minimize that. Don't expect to encounter that too often.

Tru_in_Blu wrote
I assume the strictest of dress codes are in place, including no "silver pants" 😉 and western cut pockets mandatory so no one can see the inner lining of your pockets 😮.

For a National, absolutely. You must absolutely dress 100% ASA. A state tourney might not be so strict, but you should still dress like it's a National. It will reflect positively upon you.

Tru_in_Blu wrote
If there are no re-imbursable expenses [other than perhaps a game fee] does that mean that only financially independent people are likely to be officiating the games [especially a higher state or national levels]?

Hey, the pay may not be great, but none of us are doing this for free! Most of us also have full-time jobs.

Tru_in_Blu wrote
If you work a state or national tournament do you make money or lose money?

You make some money. Not a lot, though. You'll probably make more at a State tourney, due to the fact that you probably won't have to travel as far.

Tru_in_Blu wrote
What path does the rec league umpire take to get to state/national level tournaments?

My recommendation is to never "look" to get a tournament. Keep an "if it happens, it happens" attitude around your association. If you ask about it too often, it can rub people the wrong way. I'd recommend keeping an attitude of wanting to improve yourself and your association. Don't say a word about it; let your umpiring skills do all your talking for you.

CelticNHBlue

Tru-

Welcome a-board (ha). I can provide you some very accurate answers to your questions and more since I am also in NH. Feel free to email or pm me and I can fill you in on anything and everything ASA in NH and throughout New England. Glad to have a fellow local umpire here.

Skahtboi

Tru_in_Blu wrote
Some of these tournaments, while in the state that I reside, are a long distance away. Some might be an hour's drive one way, some a couple of hour's drive.

You call that long??? 😕

Heck, I work high schools that are that far away on a regular basis. During the playoffs, it is nothing to drive 3+ hours one way. Don't get me started on the distances to some of the colleges I umpire for! 😀

Dakota

Skahtboi wrote
...During the playoffs, it is nothing to drive 3+ hours one way....

I used to have a car like that... 😉

IRISHMAFIA

Skahtboi wrote
You call that long??? 😕

"long" is a relative term. Traveling an hour is a deal breaker to some in this area, umpires and players alike.

Chess Ref

NCASAUmp wrote
My recommendation is to never "look" to get a tournament. Keep an "if it happens, it happens" attitude around your association. If you ask about it too often, it can rub people the wrong way. I'd recommend keeping an attitude of wanting to improve yourself and your association. Don't say a word about it; let your umpiring skills do all your talking for you.

I have the "if it happens attitude" and it has served me well. 5th year umpiring, 2 nationals, 1 championship game at Nationals, a Sectional championship game in HS-as far as we go in our area in California, some pretty top end playoff games. 🙂

NCASAUmp

Chess Ref wrote
I have the "if it happens attitude" and it has served me well. 5th year umpiring, 2 nationals, 1 championship game at Nationals, a Sectional championship game in HS-as far as we go in our area in California, some pretty top end playoff games. 🙂

That's awesome, man. Last year was my 16th year, and I got invited to my first National. It only took over 15 years, but hey... I was invited. Someone eventually noticed me, and I was honored to be entrusted with that responsibility. I never looked for a tourney, never asked to call one, never even hinted at it.

As I always tell my assignor, "I call whatever you put in front of me."

wmblue

I was invited to do 2 games at a JO state tournament last year which would have meant about 3 1/2 hours driving round trip. This is when the price of gas was around $4/gal. I also had a commitment to another game the same day, and decided to honor that commitment rather than bolt for the limelight.

I hope your association is really understanding of your not taking a state tournament.

If they chose you one it means you evaluated well and are worthy of doing one. Unless the game you were doing was of higher importance, skipping out on a state tournament is highly frowned upon and unless there are no umpires wanting to work them in the future, good luck getting another one for awhile.

If that's harsh, I apologize, I've been walked out on by umpires I've given assignments to and don't enjoy dealing with it when it happens.

NCASAUmp

wmblue wrote
I hope your association is really understanding of your not taking a state tournament.

If they chose you one it means you evaluated well and are worthy of doing one. Unless the game you were doing was of higher importance, skipping out on a state tournament is highly frowned upon and unless there are no umpires wanting to work them in the future, good luck getting another one for awhile.

If that's harsh, I apologize, I've been walked out on by umpires I've given assignments to and don't enjoy dealing with it when it happens.

And that's a bit of a catch-22. The book says to honor all commitments, regardless of convenience or monetary factors. But you run the risk of being told "screw you" if you don't skip out on a commitment so you can call their tourney.

I think most reasonable people will understand that an umpire's word is everything. If s/he says they will be there, they WILL be there. If I were running a tourney, I'd be frustrated, but I wouldn't fault the umpire who tells me he's already committed to another game or tourney.

IRISHMAFIA

NCASAUmp wrote
And that's a bit of a catch-22. The book says to honor all commitments, regardless of convenience or monetary factors. But you run the risk of being told "screw you" if you don't skip out on a commitment so you can call their tourney.

What "book" would that be?

Skahtboi

IRISHMAFIA wrote
What "book" would that be?

Didn't you read his post??? He said Catch 22.

NCASAUmp

IRISHMAFIA wrote
What "book" would that be?

The ASA Rule Book. It's the very first line in the Code of Ethics that we should honor all contracts. If I've committed myself to a game, that's a commitment that I will uphold.

IRISHMAFIA

NCASAUmp wrote
The ASA Rule Book. It's the very first line in the Code of Ethics that we should honor all contracts. If I've committed myself to a game, that's a commitment that I will uphold.

Which is written for what? ASA Championship Play?

Dakota

So, Mike, are you saying that with the exception of ASA Championship Play, you expect your umpires to bolt to the highest bidder / best game whenever they get a better offer?

IRISHMAFIA

Dakota wrote
So, Mike, are you saying that with the exception of ASA Championship Play, you expect your umpires to bolt to the highest bidder / best game whenever they get a better offer?

That isn't what I typed, is it?

I gave my annual speech last night to the new umpires. I told them the same thing I have stated here before. I will never tell any umpire they cannot work another association's games. I have come to find out that there are folks from other sanctioning bodies who have openly told umpires that I would ban them from doing ASA if they worked any other type of softball. That is just an outright lie.

I believe the local ASA staff deserves the same loyalty and support from the umpire who takes advantage of the free and continuous training and support the umpire expects from the staff.

When tentative dates for tournaments are posted 6 months in advance, an umpire has every opportunity to set a schedule around certain dates well in advance to allow a return of the loyalty afforded them. There is an association-sponsored one-pitch that is on the same Saturday every year. I can tell you today when this tournament will take place for the next few years and there will still be an umpire shortage for that tournament.

BTW, though I am ASA, I would expect an umpire of any association to treat them the same regardless of the sanctioning body with which that association is aligned.

Of course, I can only speak for my experience in this area. What others may consider fair or right for their area is probably different.

Dakota

I wasn't talking about organizational loyalty. I was talking about what the umpire does AFTER he TELLS you he is accepting a specific assignment or tournament, which was the case for the OP. If I tell the assignor that I will work his 10U rec game and then I get a call for the HS assignor to filll in for a AAA-level HS varsity game, I'll turn down the varsity game and honor the 10U commitment.

IRISHMAFIA

Dakota wrote
I wasn't talking about organizational loyalty. I was talking about what the umpire does AFTER he TELLS you he is accepting a specific assignment or tournament, which was the case for the OP. If I tell the assignor that I will work his 10U rec game and then I get a call for the HS assignor to filll in for a AAA-level HS varsity game, I'll turn down the varsity game and honor the 10U commitment.

And my response was to Dave's assertion it was in the book.

Of course, it is in the book. It is probably in more than one association's book.

ASA is talking about ASA. If I'm assigning ASA championship play, I'm expecting the ASA umpire to make that a priority. I doubt quite seriously that ASA means that an umpire should forego working their game to help out the guy down the street who is fighting for the same teams and umpires that they need to hold a decent tournament.

And I doubt that USFA, AFA, NSA, PONY, U-trip, SSA, ISA, SNA, Softball Kingdom or any other softball sanctioning body really give a **** whether the competition's games are covered or not.

I would think that this "code" is more likely addressing umpires fulfilling their accepted ASA-related assignments instead of not showing or walking away because s/he doesn't like the teams, partner, location, etc.

Tru_in_Blu

From my original post:

I was invited to do 2 games at a JO state tournament last year which would have meant about 3 1/2 hours driving round trip. This is when the price of gas was around $4/gal. I also had a commitment to another game the same day, and decided to honor that commitment rather than bolt for the limelight.

This was a situation where the tournament was short coverage for some games a couple of days before the start of the tournament. My original game was scheduled weeks before. When I was asked about doing the tournament games, I declined because I already had committed to the other game. Now to be honest, had the tournament been in my back yard instead of hours away, and I had a chance to do 3 or 4 games, I might have asked my assignor about it. If he said that would put him in a bind, that would have been the end of the discussion. If he said, "You have a chance to do a state? Go for it. I can cover that game." I would have gone with his blessing.

Ted

bkbjones

I'm not very politically correct, so here goes.

If you have a commitment in ASA, NFHS or NCAA you honor that commitment. (IMHO if you are working "other" associations, bust 'em.)
If you are working rec leagues (Class B), you need to get to Class A.
Talk to your UIC if considerations like travel expenses, hotel rooms, etc., are important. Get all that stuff straightened out way in advance.

Do other associations not offer some assistance for umpires going to ASA championship play tournaments out of town? We don't make our umpires rich, but we do offer some per diem, travel and other reimbursements. We have a fairly liberal draw policy, so if you need money to go you can take it out of your earnings.