What's the Call
 

ASA

Runner on 2B. Ball is hit to the shallow right field.

R1 misses 3B enroute to the plate, but realizes he will be put out and reverses direction. While attempting to return to 3B, R1 is obstructed and tagged out by F5.

Defense immediately appeals the runner missing 3B.

Well...since runners should be given an opportunity to complete their base running responsibilities, I guess we should hesistate to see what the runner does before awarding the base we thought they would have attained had the OBS not occurred. If they return to third, assume the retouch and then make your award (which for me would probably be the base they are currently standing on.) If they get up and scurry home, then honor the appeal.

I know with you there is a catch somewhere, so I will patiently wait and see what other answers are given.

Under rule supplement 36 the umpire will need to judge whether the runner committed another violation and that violation is being played upon.

The example given in the rule supplement is as follows:

A runner leaving second base too soon on a fly ball is returning after the ball is caught and is obstructed between second and thrid base. If the runner would not have made it back to second base prior to the throw arriving, the runner remains out.

In the OP, the appeal came after the tag out. While not stated very clearly, the tag was apparently just a tag, not a live ball appeal.

Obstruction
 

Once an obstructed runner is played on and put out the ball is dead.

Get new glasses and take the events in order offered :D

OK, but I guess I need something besides new glasses...
What in there implies the tag was a live ball appeal?

It doesn't and never meant to insinuate a live ball appeal. You are reading into it.

The status of the appeal is actually determined by the actions of defense and the manner in which the umpire addresses the play

On proper appeal of runner missing 3rd base, the runner is out.

( see RS 36 )

If the umpire had indicated the delayed dead ball, immediately upon the tag it should be a dead ball situation and the runner who was obstructed awarded any base the umpire deemed they would have reached. In this case, he was headed back to 3rd when obstructed, so I would have awarded 3rd. I would not have recognized any appeal by the defense until the base had been awarded, and in this case the runner was returned to third, negating the missed base.

I never said it was a live ball appeal; I said it apparently was not, but the situation as stated left room for some doubt.

Then why did you post this? You are the only one to mention it.

What in there implies the tag was a ball appeal? [/quote]

I don't think so.

DEAD BALL! Since the umpire has killed the play, all runners should be given the opportunity to complete their baserunning responsibilities, then make the appropriate awards.

In this case, I think it is obvious the runner was obstructed returning to 3B, so the award would most likely be 3B.

The appeal should not be accepted until the runner completes their running responsibilities. Since R1 is now standing on 3B, the appeal is not upheld.

Also, B2 would be awarded any bases the umpire believes the BR/R would have reached had there been no OBS.
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Whatever, man. A tag can be a live ball appeal, and is not normally verbalized. My assumption was you were describing a dead ball appeal, but the "immediately" left room for doubt that the defense was explaining the tag. I only stated the doubt since you have been known to post trick questions before.

Wow! For once there was no catch to the question! :eek:

Let's change the OP to make it a live ball appeal, tagging the obstructed runner. Would you treat the result differently?

RS 36 says (in part), relative to an obstructed runner being played on for a running violation, " If the runner would not have made it back ... prior to the throw arriving, the runner remains out." So, it appears the "exceptions" aren't intended to be applied in every case, but we are to judge if the result of the obstruction kept the obstructed runner from correcting the violation, and rule in a manner consistent with other obstructions, that we award what we judge would be the result had there been no obstruction.

In this altered play, the runner is obstructed trying to return, and tagged out on a live ball appeal. While perhaps not an absolute, my conclusion would be that the obstruction without the ball means the same player later tagging her kept her from safely returning, and I am still awarding her 3rd. The mechanic is that I am signalling (calling) DDB when the obstruction is observed, and DB when the tag is applied, no matter if it a live ball appeal OR a simple tag attempt. I am awarding the runner 3rd, and once she has completed her running responsibilities (and is standing on 3rd), any subsequent dead ball can then be considered (and would be denied).

As explained to me, the general scenario intended by the exceptions is to not completely protect a runner who is obstructed when advancing, and still put out when realizing she needed to return for a missed base, or one left early. In some cases, the obstruction even helped the runner's opportunity to return (she had less distance to cover in return), so the decision should still be based on what the calling umpire judges would have happened if there were no obstruction. If the obstruction didn't affect the result, keep the out; if the runner would have safely returned, then keep the protection.

The difference between the two scenarios (live / dead ball appeal) is how the obstruction is handled. In the dead ball appeal, the runner was tagged out between the bases where the obs occurred, so is not out from the tag, and is allowed to complete her baserunning before the appeal is dealt with. In the live ball appeal, the runner is out on appeal if IUJ the runner would not have made it back to 3B absent the obs.

Don't remember that as any part of a conversation, but there was a lot of comments there were not repeated, so it could have been. However, I don't buy it.