NCAA Allowing ASA SP Mechanic????
 

Please tell me it isn't so. I had an umpire who works NCAA tell me that when working a 2-umpire game, the BU can now start in the "B".

She has to be pulling my leg. ;)

The assignor for a majority of the NCAA games in our area REQUIRES that in a 2-ump game the BU starts in the "B" slot. He has required it for a number of years. He has a number of reasons to justify it as a better starting position, but it comes down to this: if we want to work NCAA games in MN and most of them are 2-ump games, then we have to start in "B".

I don't like it, but if I want to work the games I have to do what I'm told to do.

Well, I cannot see any good reason to justify it, but that's me. What are his reasons?

This is from the document that was drafted to 'support' the mechanic.

POSITIVES:
Foul Line
1. Can cover the first base foul line beyond the base umpire.
2. Could help on F/F from plate to umpire if needed (see negative #3).
3. Can see the foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate better.
4. Better look at check swing.
Slot
1. More field coverage.
2. Already in the diamond, no decision to go in or stay out.
3. Better position for base hit or line drive to right with possible throw to first.
4. Already in the diamond for overthrow at first from right field.
5. Base hit to left or center can stay outside the diamond and allows you to keep the four elements in front of you (with button hook you take eyes off the ball and turn back to the ball).
6. Better tendency to cover or chase fly balls in base umpire’s responsibility area.
7. On fly balls the slot allows you to track the ball without immediately making a decision to go in or out.
8. Better look at the bunt near home plate from inside the diamond. (Let the second baseman clear and follow into position at first).
9. Moving toward the play at first instead of away from it.
10. Away from the first base coach, which prevents socializing between umpire and coach and cuts down on the base coach being nitpicky about the opponent’s pitcher.
NEGATIVES:
Foul Line
1. Must go into foul territory for ball hit to right for possible play at first and balls hit between the first and second baseman.
2. Umpires have a tendency not to cover any fly balls since fly balls as a standard have always been the plate umpire’s responsibility.
3. Base umpire (as a general rule) will bail out on bounding balls down the line or pop ups in the vicinity of first base to the out of play area. (That is why we went from the base umpire not covering the line on bounding balls, to covering from the base and beyond and now back to not covering the line on bounding balls).
4. Most umpires, because they have been indoctrinated to do so, button hook into the diamond on all balls that leave the infield even though on balls hit to left or center it is better coverage to stay outside the diamond (allows you to keep the four elements in front of you). With the buttonhook you take your eyes off the ball and turn your back to the ball.
Slot
1. Can provide very little or no help on the first base/right field foul line on fly balls.
2. Can provide no help on the first base foul line on bounding balls.
3. Cannot see the front edge of the pitchers plate or the back edge if the pitcher’s foot is minutely off the plate.

Mike,
She's not pulling your leg.
That's approved and I saw some actually use it this fall.

POSITIVES:
Slot

Sorry, don't understand this one.

Don't necessarily agree with this one. I agree it is a decent position for that scenario, just don't know if it is actually better.

Don't buy that, especially in a two-umpire system. The "keeping the ball in front of you" is extremely over-rated when the ball not in or on route to the vicinity of the play. To me, it is more important to see the player touch and round 1B than it is watching a ball rolling on the ground in the outfield.

And how does watching a ball in left/center allow you to keep the runner rounding 1B in front of you? "You cannot have a play without the ball". Well, that is true....and false. Without the ball, you can have a missed base, interference, obstruction and assisting a runner.

At times.


Only makes a difference with a lazy umpire.

A "socializing" umpire is going to socialize with anyone. Moving them away from the coach isn't going to change that or stop the coach from complaining about a pitcher. And since the umpire is farther away, that means s/he is going to be a bit louder about it.

NEGATIVES:
Foul Line

I don't see this as a negative.

You need to define "bail out" :D. If you mean avoiding being involved in a play, no doubt. If you mean running for your life!!!!!:eek: This is why a poor infielder make the best umpires. They know how to get out of the way of a ground ball :cool:. Assuming an NCAA game will always have lines on the field, I have no problem with BU handling F/F from the front of the base. Even when avoiding a bounding ball, the BU is still in the best position to see the ball in relation to the base, IMO.

Same response as above. An umpire who works at their game doesn't always need to have a visual to know where the ball is. There is more to the game than just what one can see.

Slot

You probably aren't going to see it even if it is not minute :rolleyes:


Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the position. I just think in the FP game, it moves the BU from the most advantageous position for observing the pitcher and batter with no runner on base.

And, BTW, the pitchers that do cheat, know you are not going to get a good look when off the line and will use that to their advantage.

Could this be at the root of the reason for the change? ;)

Would that be the old AFA NATIONAL UIC Russ?

No.

I used the mechanic frequently this fall. For the first batter I felt out of place, especially on base hits to left field (you have to wait for the runner if she has a double, and if she holds to a single, you may not move at all).

I felt the best advantage is the view of the left-handed slappers. To me, I got a better angle of the swing (or no swing) and possible caught/dropped third strike. Overall, I have a positive feeling about this mechanic, as did everyone I worked with this fall.

And another reason for this suggested mechanic is to help BU with the pitcher being outside of the 24" (now that we have the lines).

Uh.......never mind.:D

Whitten? Guessing again

Thanks. That procedure is used in some NAFA. We did
not use it in the 18U Nationals however.

My thought exactly.

Oh yeah...those lines that may last an inning. :rolleyes:

I know that in two man I catch more illegal pitches when I am on the line rather than in the B position. In three man, again, I call more IP from either line than in the B position. I don't see any reason to take this tool away from the umpires.

I'm thinking go even earlier; Russ's mentor, Billy P.

Well, there is no doubt that Billy P certainly was one not afraid to shake things up when it came to mechanics

You're assuming that calling IP's is something that is wanted of us. :confused:
Or, worse yet, that the umpires assigned actually will call them when thrown. :eek:

I will leave it up to MNBlue to say who the person is, but not any we have
brought to surface.

Sadly, you are correct. I do expect all to want the rules enforced and the enforcers to actually do the enforcing. :rolleyes:

Coaches ALWAYS want the IP called.............when it is the other team's pitcher :rolleyes:

Does NCAA still publish the Umpire Manual in Notebook style?

Thanks

Does ASA still publish the Umpire Clinic Guide as well as
the Case Book and are they available now?

Thanks

I purchased the NCAA Umpire manual from Referee.com, and brought it to my nearby Office Depot. For just over $3.00, they cut the binder and put a spiral bind on it, so now it is notebook style. They can also put a hard back cover and clear front protector; I just didn't do it this time (I did it last year, when I thought it was THE manual, not an annual reprint).

ASA now provides the Umpire Clinic Guide and Casebook on one CD; it's $15 at Officialgear.com. I do not believe they continue to make a printed version available.

No. They stopped that with the 2007 edition. If you want to see the new format, go to this thread and follow the link in the first post. http://forum.officiating.com/softbal...re-manual.html

Thanks, got my order in.

I think I like it, despite some of the negatives that have been pointed out. I'd have to give this one a try though, which I wouldnt mind doing.

From my experience with the change when ASA did this in SP, it is great for the umpire.

My question though, is it good for the game and what is expected of the umpires?

Quote Mike: My question though, is it good for the game and what is expected of the umpires?

To get the call right?:eek:

Is that like: Enforcing needs to be done by the enforcer so the required enforcement has been accomplished by the enforcer.:rolleyes:

Are you a lawyer? :confused:

Cca / ncaa
 

Could you educate someone who doesn't have a clue as to the relationship between the NCAA and the CCA and why the NCAA would publish a rulebook, but the CCA would separatly publish an umpire's manual.

I could just barely make out the "Collegiate Commisioners Association" on the top of the book, and I googled that, so I now have some idea what the CCA is, but still not why the rules and umpire's manual aren't both best handled by the NCAA.

:confused:

Just a guess, but probably partly because the NCAA does not do sports officials. Local umpire associations which meet particular standards contract with leagues, conferences, schools whichever the case may be, for providing qualified umpires to work their games.

Unlike ASA, the NCAA governs the game but not the officials. "NCAA" mechanics" is just the term for the mechanics set used to work collegate games and were not developed by the NCAA.

I think bloopers to short right with a play at 1B (with BU potentially in the way) and the few token IP's called from A do bear some consideration when discussing moving the BU to B to start with.

I would think better positioning on extra base hits and routine plays at 1b do in fact out weight that, but like I said, I wouldnt mind trying it on for size. Who knows, maybe next fall ball, when all the NCAA folks have worked it for a year and I have one of them for a partner, I will try it.

... just like the relationship between MLB and WUA...

...well, kinda.