Did anybody see...
 

...the guy behind the plate in the WS make a move that would get him crucified here, or for that matter, anywhere?

Rings up the Rays' batter and while his right hand is in the air, points to U1 who promptly give a safe signal.

On top of that, the pitch looked damn good without the swing.

BTW, I'm convinced the Fox pitch locator is showing where the ball is caught.

I didn't see this, but....whaaaat???:confused:

I have no idea what that mechanic would be about. Then again, MLB guys have the job security of a Supreme Court justice, so they basically get to signal however they want (but we all know that:)).

The umpire, BTW, is Kerwin Danley, and it's good to see he's recovered nicely from taking that pitch off the jaw earlier this year.

I saw it and am still not really sure what he did!

In one way it seemed he rang up the strike, or was in the process of doing so, then "pointed" the BR to first.

But it also looked as if he asked for a check of his strike call.

Not only did the pitch look good to me, I had a swing by the batter!

Must be a lot of nerves running wild while plating a WS game. That's all I can figure.

Absolutely horrible! There is no doubt in my mind what his original signal conveyed: STRIKE. Nerves cannot, and should not be a factor at this level. Inexplicable!

And I could buy that IF he didn't raise his right hand by his right ear before coming up and then after standing pointed to first like an afterthought when the batter began to head that way.

Yeah, but something else that is confusing is (haven't seen him do a called third strike) when he does his "normal" strike signal he looks as if he is punching the catchers back! What he did on this call was definitely strange.

I imagine replays are already posted somewhere on the net!

Holy ****.....could he have possibly been human......and had an afterthought...made a mistake??

Heaven forbid!!

"We are expected to be perfect and then get better after that!!"

LOL! No kidding, Willie. He sure did. But something just dosn't seem right. This guy also likes to check his indicator often. And he does use a regular hammer on a swinging strike. When was the last time you checked with your partner on a called swinging strike?

This is Kerwin Danley who was the same guy who was run into by a fielder while watching a foul ball in the ALCS.

Ouch! And not he just missed a HBP. Yeah, this guy is human, but too human for what someone in a group that some believe are the best in the world. ;)

The best in the world are not human willie. What are they then??

But I agree...it looked like on slow mo instant replay that the ball hit Rollins Jersey!!

I would take his assignments!!! lol

Holy Sheepdip Batman! Must be a good reason why he worked MLB for something like 12 years before getting his first World Serious...

Like changing his mind on K3. I almost messed myself when I saw that. At least it was only on worldwide television -- and now available on the 'net.

Just think: if they started their positions so the crew chief, Tim Welke, was the best umpire, and Danley is second best, then that sixth game HP umpire must be one of our SP umps with a one-foot-long leash on his leg.

I agree with all that say it was terrible. Then later missed the HBP.

Yes, he is human and he is making mistakes like we all have. So are we, yet we routinely critique each other's interpretations or mechanics and occassional performance.

Just because this guy umpires in the major league does not exempt him from criticism. If anything, with his contract and financial demands, his performance should be scrutinized even more so. Do you think that if he watches the game he isn't going to critique his own work? Do you think he may not have already had a discussion with someone concerning last night's game?

We all know when we screw up and the better umpires work to insure that mistake does not occur again. I just hope Danley doesn't take the attitude that he made a mistake and it is no big deal. It should be a big deal, but to the umpire more than anyone else.

Yes. And I was embarrassed for him. You could tell by the look on his face when he took that his helmask off that he knew he had effed up.

Ehh...you may be right....I don't know. The pitch looked like it could go either way on the outside. However, I was suprised at just how far out the locator showed it.

Ive looked with no sucess.... how the h@ll does the pitch locator thing work? anyone have any links to this (and no, detailed schematics and parts lists are not needed... lol)

Probably something like this...

hrmmm ..now i know even less than before. :) but, thanks. I mean could they be less vague? array of switches? pulse stretcher? ...well anyways the d@mn thing ive watched on tv is not very accurate.

From what I can tell from the description, this patent describes an electonic version of the "mat."

That is nothing more than mat ball with a speaker.

Yep. Just another case of me being a smart-a$$. :D

More like this:

Tracking Pitches Using Video Technology

This patent contains a, er, patently false statement:

"Before the ball reaches the ground, it is usually caught by a catcher." (emphasis added)

BS. Not in most of my SP games.

Exactly why I wear shinguards. I don't care if it's SP or not, that ball ALWAYS finds the same spot on my shin bones!

Though last night, I called a local league's SP Co-ed B Championship game behind the plate, and the catcher from the home team was awesome. Only 3 or 4 got by her all night. 7 innings, final score was 28-25. She was damn good.

Great! How was she as a catcher?

Trust me, you'd have been barking up the wrong tree with this catcher. She makes no attempts to hide it. :)

Not so. Tim Tschida would have the dish in Game 6, is a crew chief during the season, and has been to the Series before. For the postseason MLB sets the rotation so that a regular season crew chief would work the plate in Game 6 because it will always be an elimination game. And of course, the series crew chief would have the plate for a possible Game 7.

I know you were kidding around a little; just wanted to explain it to those who might not know.

You are on to something, though: With a crew of 6 the SP umpire you mentioned could get by with his mobility.:p

The hardest working guy on a 6-man crew is usually whoever is working 2B provided the crew chief wants him to go out on fly balls to CF.

I was hoping we'd see a crew working the playoffs that included Gorman, Wendelstedt, DiMuro and Welke. Maybe sometime soon.

MLB's response to the strike/ball call.

Interesting to note in this article, tho: (bolded parts are my emphasis)


And this is exactly why we give audible ball calls.

;):mad:

Too technical for me. All I want to know is, was the pitch hitable. If so,
STRIKE.

MLB's response to the strike/ball call.

Rubbish. This explanation is weak, how can it be "clear" about something which is being explained as "confusing" The mechanic he used was the same as every other swinging strike during the game. Nothing was clear about anything in the scenario.

This explanation is much better, but I don't believe for a second that his "intention" was to go for help until he realized his error. Granted, this comment is for the ignorant (fans & media), but how many umpires do you know who wanted have accepted a simple, "brain fart, he said ball and gave a strike signal." And if it wasn't ball four, how many would have really noticed other than the pitcher, catcher and batter?

Yep, but better timing may have helped :rolleyes:

And that, my friends, is why SRW wears a steel cup. If your balls were audible, you would too.:eek:

Doesn't that create a tinny echo?

It's kinda cool technology but I agree with you that it's showing where the ball is caught, not where it's entering the strike zone. I'm a huge Phillies fan and tonight's HP sucked. His strike zone was everywhere but at least he was consistently bad for both teams. I thought he was leaning a little towards Hamels but he did miss a few for him as well. I was waiting for Victorino to come unglued on "blue" for that waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside pitch he called a strike. Now I'm just waiting for this game to get back underway so that Philly can finally have another World Series title.:D

Your wait will only be about 20 more hours...

I know and it sucks but there's nothing anybody can do about Mother Nature. I thought it should have been suspended a half inning earlier. I know Bud Selig would never allow the game to not be completed but that field was getting sloppy.

I had to read that twice...first time I thought it said TINY. :eek:

You were not alone. I read it that way initially and laughed. I came back through the thread and read it a second time later and realized it said TINNY. I laughed even harder.

I am easily amused...

My buddies and I called it early. When I walked into the bar to watch MNF, I told the owner that the baseball game would be called because we were already getting a heavy rain and knew it would hit Philly shortly. Once it started, weconcluded that if would have been called in the 5th if there was any indication on the radar that showed a chance it would stop. However, if there was no gap in the storm, they would take it as far as possible before it got completely ridiculous.

Well, we were somewhat right because it did get pretty bad. What is more ridiculous is all the BS about how Bud Selig is ruining the WS and you have idiots writing columns about how the game should be be called and awarded to the Phillies because they are past 4 1/2 innings, yada, yada, yada. We are in one screwed up country when the slightest little thing like stopping a baseball game due to bad weather is the leading subject of the news and everyone has to find fault with someone for life to go on.

I think we should change the name of this country to the United State of Chicken Little.

Funny... the game suspension caused no controversy in the heartland beyond pretty straightforward reporting of the situation... must be an Philly and the 'burbs issue.

There was one silly comment that the Rays scoring in the top of the 6th took the pretend commissioner "off the hook" regarding declaring the game official.

Personally, I'm all for any situation that shows up the pretend commissioner for the inept sleeze that he is. Too bad he didn't declare the game official and the series over.

Hey, damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you were behind the plate in an 18U Gold National Championship in OKC in the top of the 6th inning, and the visitors tied it up with field conditions as bad as last night's and NO chance of improvement in the weather... What would you do?

Look, he made the right call, and it's his call to make. You'd get pissed if someone criticized you for making your own calls, so why criticize him?

You misunderstand. I wasn't criticizing his decision to suspend the game; it was the right thing to do (perhaps a nit could be picked that it was a little too late...).

I was hoping he would declare the game official, take the Rays run off the board, and declare the Phillies the World Champions because of the s---storm that would follow... all directed at the pretend commissioner. IMO, He is a sleazy individual who has not done anything in "the best interest of baseball" his entire time in office, including his time as acting commissioner (at least then his title was honest).

Well, if I were behind the plate doing the 18U Gold National:
1. We'd obviously have to be in a parallel universe, cuz they ain't stickin someone like me back there in this universe.
2. It would be MY call to make on whether it's playable.

There's no doubt the game should have been called. I wish MLB would be smart enuf to have a rule that if it's suspended you pick it up from that spot when you are in the World Serious. This isn't the first time we've dealt with bad conditions and tried to play...maybe the worst, but not the only.

I'm just curious as to what you have based your opinions on. Personally, I have no real issues with the job Selig has done as commish. Certainly not as much as I had with say, Ford Frick and his *.

Selig has overseen the financial turnaround of baseball with a 400 percent increase in the revenue of MLB and annual record breaking attendance. Look at the state the game was in during the late 80's and early 90's. If for no other reason, his tenure could be termed a "success" because of this. He also introduced the Wild Card, a move that has not only involved more fans being interested in post season play, but has also led to some interesting and exciting stories of post season play. (Case in point both Marlins' WS titles.) Yes, he is more loved by the owners than anyone else involved with the game, largely because of his perspectives as a one time baseball owner himself. And yes, there have been some downsides to his tenure as well, but no more than some others we could name.

By the way, I am just looking at my above post from a historical perspective as far as the game goes, without any concern of "personalities" of various commissioners.

If anyone is wondering why SteveM isn't posting, it is because he is probably out shoveling snow. Weather reports from his area are mentioning 6-7 inches of snow so far today.

BTW, the Tampa team had no hotel last night. The team checked out prior to the game, anticipating flying out of Philadelphia after the game. They could not find any rooms in the Philly area, so they ended up at the Hotel Dupont in Wilmington, DE. I wonder if they have checked out already, assuming a flight home or are holding the rooms, just in case they do not play. It is still raining in Philly, and snowing just North of the city.

They really need to back off the length of the season.

Until recently, he was the owner of the Brewers. The "ownership" by his daughter was a sham. He was the owner. He and Carl Pohlad collaborated to use MLB money to both enrich Pohlad and contract the Twins. Pohlad viewed this as win-win... either he gets more for the team than he could by selling it to a real buyer, or he succeeds in browbeating local politicians into building him a stadium.

Selig's much ballyhooed financial "success" of MLB was engineered on the backs of chemical abuse by the players, which he turned a blind eye to until he was forced to face up to it (sort of).

As acting commissioner, he presided over the only complete cancellation of the postseason, including the world series, because of the strike of 1994. The strike was long and bitter, brought on by a well-deserved complete distrust of Selig by the player's union... Selig had been caught colluding with owners to rig the signing of free agents. The 1994 strike was forced to end when federal judge Sonia Sotomayor issued a preliminary injunction against the owners on March 31, 1995.

Shall I go on?

Sorry, but this would have happened no matter who was sitting in the commissioner's office. I agree with your assessment of the "position" he was dropped into by his cronies, it is a sham.

Personally, I think the owners got screwed by the judge as I do not believe she has any authority over a private business. And before you bring up their anti-trust exemption, there is no inherent right of ANYONE to play, umpire, watch or make money off of a child's game being played by overgrown, overpaid babies.

If the owners were smart, which IMO they are not, they would take that anti-trust exemption and tell congress where to put it. Granted, it would be more difficult to obtain aid and financing by the local governments, but so be it. They don't need to pay the prima donnas all that money.

I happen to agree with your view that the judiciary overstepped, but (IMO) if the owners, led by the pretend commissioner, had not engaged in unfair labor practices and other shenanigans, the judge would not have had the excuse.

As to the antitrust exception, since when does a private business even need be concerned with antitrust issues with how it handles internal financial issues? Antitrust concerns how a company colludes with competitors (e.g price fixing or market dividing) or how it tries to engage in monolopy practices with competitors. The problem with this model of business behavior with professional sports teams is that no MLB team is a BUSINESS competitor of any other... they are sports competitors but not business competitors. This is easy to demonstrate: what would the NY Yankee$ do if they drove all of the other MLB teams out of business? The business entity in professional sports is the league, not the individual team. This also means that the whole free agent system is also a misapplication of federal labor law to professional sports. JMO.

You could, but I could also counter with his so called successes. My point is, look at the history of the game. It is rife with conflict and greedy owners manuevering to get more for less out of the players. There also exist all sorts of conspiracies by owners throughout time and collusion by the very people entrusted to prevent these sorts of things. (League presidents, when they existed, and commissioners.) Do you really think the names Landis and Frick and Kuhn are any more deserving of respect than Selig?

So...should we go back to the players being mere chattel, often subject to the whims of an owner? Gawd, they probly all have secret shrines to Charlie Finley they bow to every day anyway.

Perhaps a return to a limited reserve system would help things along. Back in the olden days (speaking late 1800s) each club could "reserve" five players. Granted there were only 8-12 teams during this period, and rosters mostly were about 14-15 players. (In some cases, rosters were even smaller, with yesterday's starting pitcher helping take tickets or be the one-man grounds crew. The reserve system was in place largely due to the Players League (1890) and the Western League morphing into the American League in 1901 -- and the ever-present greed of owners.)

BTW, the judge who originally ruled baseball was not subject to antitrust laws was a fellow with weird hair, weird name and Bud Selig's role model, Kenesaw Mountain Landis. Landis was infamous as a federal judge, setting records almost daily for having judgments overturned.

Baseball may be doing well, but there is some fixing that would be in the best interests of the game, owners and players.

Doesn't the entire concept of revenue sharing kind of prove the case against being business competitors as well? I mean, how often will you see Microsoft giving Apple funds so that there can be parity in the tech business? :D

I'd put the pretend commissioner at the bottom of the list in terms of integrity and operating in the "best interests of baseball" of any MLB commissioner in my time as a somewhat informed fan (meaning my adulthood).

I realize that last sentiment ("best interests...") is ill-defined and has been used in the past for all kinds of power plays, etc., but apart from his seeming near complete lack of any personal integrity (based on his actions), he has failed the game in many, many ways from the hostile attitude toward the players union, to the lack of any real check on the free-spending ways of the Yankee$ and the Red $ox, to encouraging (at best through knowing wink-wink, at worst through collusion) the use of performance enhancing drugs to rebuild fan interest after he presided over the near destruction of the game.

MLB is one of many employment opportunities for professional male athletes in the USA and the world. If a college student wants to pursue an education that qualifies him for only one job with only one employer, that does not mean the employer must have its internal divisions bid for him just to avoid violating antitrust or federal labor laws. The same applies to an athlete who decides to pursue only one employer, whether that be MLB, the NFL, or the NHL.

Considering Apple now has more cash on hand than Microsoft, not terribly often. ;)

Okay then, how about Apple sharing with HP? :rolleyes:

You get my point, though....

You mean when the chattle that were part of the community, held down a real job in the off-season, couldn't pay for a meal and other necessities in the team's town if they wanted to and were basically regular guys who wasn't obsessed with their own self-importance? You remember those guys. A pitcher could actually pitch 9 innings without specialized equipment, top-notch ergonomic wardrobe and a personal trainer. They hit, too. And a player played where it would help the team, not where it suited himself.

Rant on!

Yeah, they weren't paid the obscene wages we see today, but maybe that is because our parents were smart enough to not worship a non-hero and throw around money they didn't have.

Yeah, the owners want the most they can get out of their investment, but that's the same to some level with every business in the country.

Here's the catch: The players want it to be a business when it suits them, but then sit back and rip owners for not caring about their personal lives. If an owner doesn't want a contracted player to participate, they still have to pay the contract. If a player isn't satisfied with a contract THEY signed, they just stop playing and blame the owner for being insensitive to his needs. GIVE ME A BREAK!

And, of course, the owners haven't the courage to tell them to take a hike and bow to their whim and fancy. Some of these owners remind me of the nagging spouse who honestly believes they can change their mate once married and is confused when that doesn't happen.

You have to give the owners one thing. They are the ones making the investment, not the players. The player's offer no tangible investment, just the demand of money for unproven production. Yet, the unions demand a cut of the marketing, tv revenue, concessions and just about anything they can get their grubby little hands on. That's the life I want, making a living off OPM & risks.

Rant off!

Mike, I agree with you about the players. If I got a job and failed 70% of the time when it counted, I'd be fired in a heartbeat. :D

This is why I only call softball and not baseball, though you have some of the same mentality in a lot of the weekend warrior softball players who think that they're actually playing for something more than a t-shirt or a trophy in their sponsor's lobby. It's through that idol worship that we've done ourselves in - the players know that if they were to leave a particular team, the fans would revolt. Thus, the owners of the team are stuck between a rock and a hard place when the players don't perform as promised, yet the fans still seem to love them.

There are very few pro athletes whom I respect: Ron Dayne (I know he's football, but they're in the same pickle), Reggie White (again, footbal), Larry Bird, Robin Yount, etc. These guys play(ed) for love of the game, not the paycheck, and they are producers. They realized from the beginning that they're only one small part of a team, and that they get nowhere as individuals. Yet if they play together as a team, they stand a much better chance at success.

We no longer value character in an athlete, but rather the character athletes. Look at Dennis Rodman, Shaq, Michael Vick, etc. These are the characters that our children idolize, yet they bring nothing to the table in terms of values. It's all money, look at me, money.

So where/when did we go wrong? Free agency? Mass televised marketing?

"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?"

I don't know...I think you're describing quite a few gov't jobs there! :D

I agree with a lot of what you have to say. I'll add KC Chiefs Linebacker Donnie Edwards as another pro player I greatly admire. He has a strong work ethic, doesn't talk smack and isn't out getting arrested on his days off.

Add Zach Thomas to List A and Barry Blownup Bonds to List B. (IMHO, Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe belong in the HOF before Bonds. I hope his nads shrunk to this size oo)

Well, a 72 hour rain delay is not in the rule book, either. In fact, there is no time limit on a rain delay. That the pretend commissioner was having the game continue in unplayable conditions just to avoid having to actually step forward and make a courageous decision is no surprise.

Whoops, I deleted my post because I heard him clarify that he would suspend the game for as long as it took and I already got quoted. And you're right--a game can be suspended as long as he wants to suspend it, and now the rules support him. Good job, Bud!

Of course, Bud's tendency to take the path of least resistance might come in handy for him if he wanted to try umpiring. ;)

Hey now, I used to work for the State. ;)

And I even got fired from one of those jobs. They trumped some crap up on me and got me tossed. Later, I found out they couldn't afford the raises that were coming, so they were looking to lighten the load.

B@st@rds.

Actually, the rule (4.12) is clear and Selig really didn't have a choice.

Everyone acts like there was some super tough decision made here, yet it is no more of a tough decision then we all make all the time on the field without the support of a commissioner and huge support staff.

The one that now says a regulation game called with the score tied becomes a suspended game? Yes, I knew that one as well. The way it is now, with the score tied the decision is made for him. If one team was ahead, he would have to declare the game suspended for however long it took to resume since calling a World Series game is not going to happen.

Look, in the regular season, indefinite rain delays are not done for regulation games for obvious reasons... expense, schedule, teams have to be in another city playing another team tomorrow, etc. And, such games will be declared official since rescheduling to complete is expensive, and not always "fair" --- that is, the home field may very well change, etc.

In the WS, neither team has anywhere else to be or any other team to play. An indefinite rain delay can, and should, be done rather than other options provided in the rule book.

He did not have to wait for the score to be tied. He just had to be willing to make a decision without a net, so to speak. No surprise (to me) he wasn't.