NSA Rule Interpretation re: Intentionally Dropped Ball
 

Something that came up in a recent rules discussion, specifically a question about a batter being out on an "intentionally dropped ball".

I know the ASA rule and the NFHS rule (which both actually have a slightly different interpretation), but this question is about the NSA fastpitch rule.

The NSA rule (7-11-e) would lead one to believe that when a fielder allows the ball to drop untouched (and everything else is in place with regards to the number of outs and at least first base being occupied), then they rule that as an "intentionally dropped ball".

All other rule sets I'm familiar with- for both baseball and softball- define an intenionall dropped ball as one that is actually touched by the fielder. In other words, if the ball is allowed to drop to the ground untouched, that does not meet the "intentionally dropped" definition.

So, what I'm looking for is something "official" from NSA that would confirm they are the "odd man out" with regards to how they define an "intentionally dropped ball".

Anybody have anything?

Funny you should mention this, because tonight, I made this call for the second time. In 16 years. Go figure.

Anyway, looking at NSA's rule book online, under 9-1-u, it says...

I'd feel pretty comfortable in saying that the ball must first be caught and, in a controlled manner, then be dropped by the infielder.

That is one of the problems I'm having- the rule you quote (which is rule 9-1-s in the fastpitch section) says the ball is dead when it is "intentionally dropped".

But rule 7-11-e, which states that the batter is out on an intentional drop, says that he's out when "...a fielder intentionally drops or lets drop a fair fly ball...".

For all other baseball and softball codes, an intentional drop requires the fielder to actually contact the ball. The addition of the phrase "or lets drop" leads me to believe that they're talking about something different than making the catch, then dropping the ball, or guiding the ball to the ground or letting it hit the glove and fall. It seems that the "lets drop" in this context must mean "allows the ball to drop untouched".

Yes, this is an exceedingly rare call- perhaps the rarest one we will ever have to make on the field. I have made it once in a ten year span, in an ASA slow pitch game where it was so blatantly obvious anyone could call it.

Of course, the players in the game were incredulous, convinced that I was just making stuff up!

As you say, actually catching the ball, then releasing it in a controlled manner is the ASA requirement for an "intentional drop". But the NFHS rule is different- no clean catch is first needed. Purposely knocking the ball down or guiding it to the ground, when it could have been caught with ordinary effort, satisfies their "intentional drop" definition.

So, those two major rule sets have different interpretations of this rule- but both require contact with the ball. Apparently, NSA has a third and different interpetation- that simply allowing the ball to drop untouched can be called as an "intentional drop".

Well, after looking at the rule you quoted, I'd have to agree with that interpretation. If simply letting a perfectly catchable ball drop to the ground untouched is NOT what they wanted, then shame on them for phrasing it so poorly.

In my game last night, I had enough time to determine the catch, call the out, and THEN the fielder intentionally let it drop. I called "dead ball," but I suppose a simple "time" would suffice.

I can see this happening - player sets up to make a basket catch, maybe even squats, and pulls his glove away at the last second.

Yes, that can happen. Are you suggesting that this be ruled an intentionally dropped fly ball?

I personally believe that this should be ruled an intentionally dropped fly ball (IDFB, for short). I think it sets up a cheap double play through unfair deception. Others will disagree with me, and that's fine. Unfortunately, ASA falls into that category, but hey... I call what they want me to call. ;)

If I understand the thinking correctly, There shouldn't be a cheap double play because the runner going to first should have time to get there. On a line drive the play may be different but things are happening fast and the runner is likely to break back towards first.
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Wong Amat Tower Condominium

In the two instances where I've invoked this rule, both infielders had an easy shot at making the double play. And I mean easy.

In either play, was one of your outs the BR?

I know of no code, baseball or softball, that prohibits a fielder from letting a ball drop untouched to the ground.

There are two protections against "deception": (1) the infield fly rule, and (2) the fact that the BR should run on a batted ball.

Codes do differ, however, in whether a fielder is allowed to "guide the ball" to the ground. For example, in ASA, this is legal. In OBR, it is not.

Every baseball and softball rule set I've been able to reseach has the requirement of actual contact between the ball and the fielder before an intentional drop can be ruled. That is, allowing the ball to drop untouched is perfectly legal.

Except, it appears, for NSA- if you read how their rule is worded. If that is the case, then they are the "odd man out" of the baseball and softball world. It wouldn't be the first time that one organization or the other went against the grain with one of their interpretations.

What I was trying to get is some "official" confirmation of that. I have sent an email to the NSA Umpire-in-Chief to see if he can confirm this.

In both cases, yep. Dead ball, BR's out.

I just looked at NSA's 7-11-e. The wording is horrendous—ambiguous in several different ways, with unclear references and a couple of gaps in logic. And all those listings of people on base are unnecessary; all that was needed was "with 1B occupied and less than 2 out."

Including "lets drop" with "drops" could reasonably indicate that letting the ball drop without touching it is illegal. But couldn't a "trapped ball," which is apparently not covered under this rule, first be intentionally allowed to drop?

With rules written this badly, no wonder there is confusion.

I meant if you didn't make the ID call

Ummm... Am I missing something here? In ASA, the ball is either caught or not caught. If it's caught (meeting the necessary definitions of a catch), then intentionally dropped to the ground, I've got a dead ball with the BR out. If it's in the glove, but dropped before control was ever gained (ie., it squirts out of the glove), then I've got nothing.

What part of the question am I missing? :)

Yes, you are. Instead of answering the question, you are thinking;)

I wanted to know if one of the outs you would believe is undeserved due to the deception is the BR.

The reason I wanted to know has already been noted in another post. A BR who runs when they hit the ball will never be doubled up due to an intentionally dropped ball. If the BR doesn't run? Shame on them, no protection is deserved.

Nor will a batter-runner who DOESN'T run, since it's a physically impossibility to get two outs on an intentionally dropped ball.

If you're talking about an ASA game where the fielder guides the ball to the ground, or just lets it hit his glove and drop, or a game under rules that allow the fielder to let the ball drop untouched (none of which should be ruled as "intentionally dropped"), I can see two, or even three, outs being made, even if the BR hustles out of the box.

On a high pop up, sure, the batter-runner should have plenty of time to reach first safely. But if it's a line drive right at an infielder, it would be easy to knock the ball to the ground, get a force at second, then the BR at first (a legal play in ASA, illegal under other rule sets).

How about a weak blooper right at a fielder, or a very short bunt popped up right around the plate? Any airbourne batted ball that that doesn't have a lot of "hang time", lets the fielder get a quick handle on the ball and forces any baserunners to tag up for an impending catch, has the potential for the defense to get multiple outs, including the batter-runner.

Except, apparently, under NSA rules.

I don't like ASA's rule that allows a fielder to guide the ball to the ground. In actual games, however, this seems to occur very rarely, even at the top levels where fielders know how to grab every advantage. In fact, the only time I ever had to deal with this situation was in reverse. In a SP tournament I was overseeing, F3 knocked a liner down with a closed glove and began a try for a double play. The PU called an intentional drop, but nobody contested the call. I had to inform the umpire later that what F3 had done was legal.

It is true that in codes that allow a fielder to let a catchable ball drop (apparently every code but NSA), a fast-thinking fielder might turn what looks like an easy catch into a double play. I've seen a very few cases in MLB where with a runner on 1B an infielder deliberately traps a soft liner that he could have caught. In those rare cases, maybe the defense deserves the DP.

A follow-up to the question about the NSA rule on "intentionally dropped" balls:

After an email exchange with the NSA National Director of Umpires, he has confirmed that under their rules a ball that is allowed to drop untouched by a fielder can be ruled as an "intentionally dropped" ball.

This makes the NSA ruling unique in all of the baseball and softball world, as all other rule sets I've researched require there to be actual contact with the ball by the fielder for an intentional drop to be ruled.

We now have three separate and distict interpretations, depending on the rule set, to cover this (admittedly rare) play.

Just chalk it up to another one of those rule differences that will confound the coaches, baffle the players and, possibly, trip up an umpire who works multiple associations.

Exactly! What is deserved is a double play and a good chewing out by the coach.

Can't say that I like their rule, but it is good to know that's what they want. Thanks for that.

In as much as ASA's rule leaves some room for interpretation, this one seems to leave a LOT of room. Does this mean that if F4 who sits back an waits to short hop a lazy line drive, it could be ruled an ID? What if the fielder allow the ball to fall to the ground and it skips away from him/her, is the ID call still valid?

Well, it's their game and they can do what they want, but I can just envision some of the arguments that could come along with this rule.

I'm thinking a cheap double play is what is undeserved. If the batter hits one to the shortstop that should've been easily caught, and the shortstop simply knocks it down, F6 now has an easy double play.

I just think it's cheap. Bottom line.

The only thing I do like about the ASA rule is that it leaves nothing up to interpretation. The ball must be caught, then voluntarily released to attempt to deceive a runner other than the BR into thinking they are forced to vacate their base. I don't think there's much interpretation left in this rule at all.

The interpretation is whether it is "caught". There are umpires that have differing opinions on that, also.

And who put the ball into play? Who failed to hit it where they ain't? Who hit is so poorly, they allowed the defense to make what you refer to as a cheap double play?

It wasn't the defense who must still execute properly to accomplish the DP.

That's not interpretation, that's judgment.

Not when the umpire's differ on what consitutes a "catch". Some umpires want to see a catch, demonstration of possession prior to the drop. Others want to see the ball "inside" the glove, and some will call it a catch if they see a touch.

Have had plenty of discussions with different umpires and you wouldn't believe the range of responses as to when they will make that call, judgment aside.

Just to continue an interesting thread... if you can suffer OBR for a moment.
TWICE in one week in September, Phillies vs Braves.
Both cases, 1 out, R1 on 1B.

Situation 1: Phils' F4 lets a high popup land in his wide-open glove (never squeezes it), then lets it fall to his feet. Picks it up to get an out at 2b, retiring the far-speedier runner instead of the BR.
BU kills the play, sending Chipper Jones back to 1B and calling the batter out.
Knowing smiles all around.

Situation 2:
High pop to F5, who settles under it then lets it drop untouched at his feet. Picks it up and retires R1 at 2B. Play stands.

Does this jive with ASA rules?

That would depend on umpire judgment of whether F4 "caught" the ball in Situation #1.