triple Play Stitch
 

In one of my games Sunday, had a very unusual triple play.

No outs, R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd, B3 hits a fly ball to CF, caught. Meanwhile both runners took off prior to the touch of the ball/glove. Everyone in the park was aware of it. CF fires the ball to 3B, who happens to be standing on the bag, with R2 advancing from 2B, and R1 about 1/4 of the way toward HP. An obvious appeal was made at 2B, which was properly executed.
As I glanced back towards HP, R1 did not touch HP, cutting short and going to
the dugout.

No obvious appeal at 3rd, and I as PU, made no call. I did not know if they were attempting to get
the advancing runner from 2nd or what. However, the entire offensive team left the field and entered
the dugout, thus causing the third out.

There would not have been a 3rd out had not the team entered the dugout, because no appeal was
made on the runner at third. Had she retreated back to 3rd, or advanced to HP, she would have been
safe.

Offensive team made no argument whatever, either way.

Hate to be disagreeable with you today, nothing personal...but,

Sounds like to me everyone in the park but you knew there was an appeal at 3B when the girl (3B) was standing on the bag and caught the throw from CF. What made the play at 2B obvious and the one at 3B not obvious?

Are you saying that because F5 happen to be standing on the bag at
the time she received the ball, it was an appeal? She also had R2 advancing
toward her bag.
A verbal appeal from the player with the ball made it very obvious on that
appeal at 2b.

She made no attempt to tag the runner coming from 2B? She immediately threw the ball to 2B? She didn't throw to home or try to tag R1 who was no where close to scoring? Sounds to me like she was standing on the bag for the leaving too early appeal. Sounds like everyone thought this too, except you.

Live Ball Appeal....RS 1-B. In all games an appeal may be made during a live ball by any fielder in possession of the ball touching the base missed or left too soon on a caught fly ball, or by tagging the runner committing the violation if they are still on the playing field.

There is nothing here about have to "verbalize" the appeal. Granted it can help in a confusing situation (overstepping 1B), but there was nothing confusing about yours.

I have read, and re-read this. It looks like to me you had a perfectly executed live ball appeal at third. (I would have at least given them the benefit of a doubt, if the age and experience level was not quite up to par.)

Don't tell me that on a caught fly ball, where there is just a runner on first who leaves way before the ball is touched, and the fielder fires the ball back to first, you expect F3 to say something like "we are appealling the runner leaving early." I certainly don't. As has been already noted by Dholloway, there is no need to say anything in this instance.

Just the fact that the CF went to 3B with a throw instead of 2B or SS would give me reason to recognize an obvious appeal, but that is me.

As I read Glen's OP, the question in his mind on the throw to 3B was whether it was a live ball appeal or an attempt to retire R2 on a tag.

I, too, suspect I would recognize the live ball appeal, but I wasn't there.

What made me believe F5 had no clue is, she immediately after catching the
[granted, she was on the base on inital contact of ball] ball begin chasing R2
toward 2B.
I know as umpires we are looking for outs, but I at the time, could not
see an appeal at 3rd.

CF's throw, IMO, was to get the advancing runner from 2nd. At the time
I did not know whether R2 left early or not, because my tag up was on R1.

There was no, not one, question from the offensive team about the result
of the play. Naturally there was none from the defensive side either. Not
that it matters, these were weak 18U teams.

I agree that under most conditions this would be an easy out, but what with
the other runner advancing, I was not going to, what I felt would benefit
the defensive team, call an out when the play just did not look natural. I
don't think F5 even knew she was on the base.

Of course not, they knew it was obvious she was appealed for leaving early and was out on that appeal! I believe you are thinking way too much into this whiskers. Once you see what transpired it is truly a no-brainer. Why else would F5 immediately throw the ball to 2B????????????? How can you say F5 didn't know she was standing on the base?????? I think it was apparent to everyone at the game she knew what she was doing.

If it was, no one, fan, coach nor player argued. Heard one Dadfan, asked why the
runner from 3rd was out and person beside them said because she went into
the dugout giving up.

So the comment is strange, but I'm not sure why you'd expect anyone to complain.
You had, ball hit to CF. Runners leave early. Ball is thrown to third. Third throws to second. Everyone leaves the field.
Why would you think anyone is paying attention to the umpire on this play?

--Ben.
________
Nice2Naughty cam

This is a no brainer:

First Out: F8's catch of B3's fly ball to centerfield.

Second Out: F8's throw to F5 who catches F8 throw while standing on third base is an active appeal of R1 leaving third base too soon.

Third Out: From your post I am not sure exactly what was the Defensive Team's obvious appeal but I am going to assume that it was an active appeal consisting of F5 throwing the ball to either F6 or F4 who then either tagged second base or tagged R2 before R2 could return to second base.

It does not matter that R1 never touched HP because she was out on the active appeal by F8 to F5.

MTD, Sr.

Just curious, Mark, what exactly is an "active appeal?" Aren't all appeals "active" in some form or fashion? The do require some action on the part of the defense, whether the ball is live or dead. Or is this baseball-ese for what we call a "live ball appeal?"

All this really tells you is that F5 knew there weren't 3 outs yet and that R2 wasn't out yet either.

I think you all are being a little too hard on Whiskers...his OP really sounds like a HTBT situation. He made many statements and later clarifications that allow me to give the benefit of the doubt...granted unusual, but isn't that why we all sit here and post?

Here's what I'm focusing on...while keeping in mind that there's a lot of action going on with 2 runners and nobody out...

**I read this that F5 did not know that R1 left early. Usually, there's a lot of 'they left early' yelling going on that helps indicate there's an appeal (not stated, personal experience).

**This is the HTBT situation...judgement call

**Again, judgement. Noted in this clarification, F5 began chasing the runner...it was not a catch and throw to F4. Also noted, Whiskers didn't know that R2 left early.

Perhaps the Red Herring in all this is the statement 'Everyone in the park was aware of it'. As the clarification statements came out, Whiskers didn't know R2 left early and it sounds like F5 perhaps didn't know R1 left early. We can't see the body language that Whiskers saw at the time...from his posts, though, he did not see what could be construed as an appeal.

So yes, normally this would be a textbook play...but then again if that were the case, we wouldn't be discussing it right now.

Skahtboi:

When we think of appeals we think of live ball and dead ball appeals. The two following plays come to mind:

1) B1 hits a triple (a fair ball down the right field line). B1 touches first base and third base but misses second base. The ball stays in live ball territory the entire time. F9 fields B1's hit and throws the ball to F3 who throws it to F1 in the circle. F4 then calls for F1 to throw her the ball which F1 does. F4 then tells BU that she is appealling B1 missing second base and proceeds to touch second base. This is a live ball appeal.

2) R1 is on first base when B2 hits a ground ball to F5 who throws the ball over F3's head into dead ball territory. The BU awards R1 third base and B2 second base. R1 does not touch second base on her way to third base. The PU throws a new ball to F1 who is in the pitching circle. F1 immediately throws the ball to F4 and F4 tells the BU that she is appealling R1 missing second base and proceeds to touch second base. This is a dead ball appeal.


The second out in my original post is an example of an active appeal. R1 left third base too soon and R1, F5, and F8 all know that R1 knows that R1 left third base too soon. There is no need for F5 to tell the BU that she is appealling R1's leaving third base too soon. I guess one could define an active appeal as part of continuous play.

MTD, Sr.

I could have saved you a lot of typing. All you needed to say was to you an "active appeal" was what most SB umpires call a "live ball appeal." ;)

You are right, cause if F5 asked BU if R1 left early, he better say nothing.
He was responsible for R2 on 2B. Had they asked him and he called her out,
we would have had a problem.

Speaking personally, I have a lot of respect for Whiskers on this board. And I think others do too. Keeping that in mind, I don't think people are being hard on him. Rather, they're being frank with their opinions while also not denigrating or being inflammatory (i.e. they are being respectful).

As for this being a judgement call, yes, it is. And I back Whiskers all the way on making the call as he saw it.

Thank You for the support. It was rather a HTBT stitch, however, I feel certain
that would it occur in the same manner again, my call would be the same.

Whiskers:

You are exactly correct. I knew better but was concentrating on explaining my definition of "active appeal." She should have been appealing to the PU. But I think you understand the what I was trying to say.

MTD, Sr.

There is no sense in us debating if what Glen saw was an obvious live ball appeal of R1 leaving 3B to early, becuase none of us saw it. Let's stipulate for a moment that when Glen watched F5 catch the throw from F8 [I]something[I] caused him to doubt if an appeal was being made on R1 or not.

Never guess an out, right?

So if he is unsure of the intent to appeal, he should not call the out.

Now what if he were to not call R1 out on appeal and she did touch the plate, and as it turned out the defense was appealing R1 leaving early as well as R2 leaving early? No problem. As soon as the defense realizes the umpire has not called R1 out someone is going to say "but she left too soon, Blue!!" Boom, now you have your appeal and the 3rd out anyway.

Whiskers, I think you got it right!