We have a coach for a High School Softball team that insists that he be allowed to coach from the coaching box in a wheel chair during the game. I can not find anything in the rule book that says he can not coach in the coaches box. I feel this is a safety issue, he may not be able to move out of the way of both the ball or players. HELP what do I do?????

Omar,
:confused:
That is a tough one...Maybe the governing body from you State
can come up with something. I was thinking maybe something
along the lines of like a Designated Media Area...But to have
him that close to the playing action does seem a little risky.
Unfortunate for him, but most of the player nowadays are super
quick. I don't think he could possibly remove himself from the
action quickly enough. Definiately a safety hazard. Maybe one of
the others on this Forum has an answer.

<font color = blue> Welcome aboard.</font> Your first post is a gem...

glen

In Pennsylvania, a few years ago, there was a baseball coach who wanted to coach 1st or 3rd base and was not allowed because he was on crutches. HE WON HIS COURT CASE. And now PIAA - our scholastic sports body - tells us that we are to permit handicapped coaches to do the bases for baseball & softball. I do not think there are any umps who care for this decision, but them's the rules. I have not seen any base coaches with crutches or in a wheel chair, but I would not refuse their being there. I suspect that I'd be very liberal with any interference call on a pop foul near the coach's box - and when/if he argued, I'd probably toss him. This was a topic in several of our chapter meetings earlier in the year and we decided that this would be the right way to handle it. This way the legal requirements are met and we meet safety standards as soon as we possibly can.

Steve M

I know I'm severely politically incorrect, but how long until batters and fielders in wheelchairs must be accommodated, too?

Don't know what rules you use up there, but in NFHS, coaches may use protheses and mobility devices.

I see where NFHS says players may wear casts, splints, and braces, if they are padded, and that they may wear protheses.

It also says any equipment judged by the umpire to be potentially dangerous is illegal.

Where is the rule on coaches using mobility devices?

I'm not saying it's not there - I just can't find it. Then, again, I only have a 2001 book...

TwoBits,

Could you tell the Rule/Section/Article that covers this??

Thanks,

glen

Dakota,

Your questions and statments beat me by couple minutes and
were not on my e-mail notification list when I replied, but
I asked same...I have 2002 book and it shows nothing. I have
got to learn to type faster, or look before replying...:)

glen

Or, just look on the bright side... it adds to the old post count! :cool:

ASA covers this by affirming the ADA for slowpitch players only in rule 4.

Now, anyone in a wheel chair or on crutches doesn't have a specific right to be there unless they are covered by the ADA. This means that they must be permantly disabled, not someone who just happened to have a broken leg. Even though this rule applies to SP players, in a courtroom, anyone leaning on the ADA will get the sympathy of the court.

That being said, they only have the right to be there, but that doesn't mean they cannot be held to other safety standards. Anyone remember when knee braces were constructed of hard plastic and metal and to wear them, the player was required to cover the metal or any protruding parts of the piece for safety reasons?

Seems to my, many sets of crutches still have the wing nuts protruding. "Coach, you are permitted to be there with the crutches, but you are going to need to pad and wrap those wing nuts."

If you see a coach in a wheelchair, approach them prior to the beginning of the game. "Good morning, coach. Will you be working the bases today? You are, no problem coach. All I need you to do is pad and wrap any protruding metal parts of your equipment. Thanks."

Okay, before all you Johnny Cochrans note that any good lawyer can still take this to court. No kidding, and it doesn't even have to be a "good" lawyer. Any putz can file a lawsuit.

However, being able to prove that you discriminated against that coach because of their disability will be a bit more difficult. At no time did you deny this coach access to the field or the players, you simply made the same reasonable request that you make when you enforce the jewelry rule.

And I'm with Steve on the interference call. No special treatment and the first time a defender checks up while attempting to make a play, somebody is going to be called out.

Even better scenario is when you have the opposing coach who wants to protest your decision to allow the coach on crutches or a wheelchair. "Coach, I can appreciate your concern for your players safety, but law, my hands are tied on this issue. I understand, as a player, I'm not sure if I would want to play under these circumstances. Hell, I wouldn't blame you one bit if you just took your team off the field." Okay, so I'm being a little coy here, but this is all part of covering your tail every step of the way.

JMHO,

Mike

[Edited by IRISHMAFIA on May 4th, 2002 at 09:02 AM]

I worked an ASA travel league for a few years in my area. One of the teams had a wheelchair-bound manager. He had enough sense to stay off the field and let his assistants work the boxes.

I'm waiting for the day when a player is seriously injured, because a coach couldn't get out of the way quick enough. Of course, they'll go after the blues first. Maybe then, someone with an ounce of common sense will realize that making access to a restroom is NOT the same as allowing someone on a ballfield.

Bob

AMEN to that, Bob. Let's hope that the person with the common sense has the authority to fix this.

Steve M

Steve:

Unfortunately it's like my wife says, "Common sense ain't very common anymore".

Bob

The sad part of this is that this type of coach places their ego and self-endowed importance ahead of the game and all of it's participants.

As a late participant in this thread........and one who did not call HS ball this year........

I cannot find my notes from last year.........but from my recollection........"I think" we were told to allow coaches on crutches or <i>mobility devices</i>....i.e. - wheelchairs......

I will be calling with some of my HS buddies this week......and will see what their recolection is.........

Joel

I don't have my books with me tonight, but I'm pretty sure Joel is correct. I don't recall any difference between baseball and softball on this.

Roger Greene

I know that anyone of us end up in a wheelchair for life because of any number of reasons and I know what the law of the land says concerning that matter that we have been discussing as well as what the NFHS Baseball and Softball Rules says about it too. BUT, logic (which I prefer over common sense), tells us that to let anybody in a wheelchair in the playing area is just about the stupidist thing an umpire could do.

This is a situation, where the men and women who really understand the situation on a baseball or softball diamond (and not some clueless legislator or judge) have to do the correct thing from the beginning of the game and not allow anybody in a wheelchair in an area where a player can be injured.

Still Looking in Rule Book
 

I am still searching for some rule covering wheelchairs
and/or crutches...Our association did not receive any aye or nay
on the subject. Someone on this string of inquires said it
was in rule book, but cannot find it. Has anyone else. I
don't believe it would be the smart thing to do, allowing a
wheelchair in a coaches box. Crutches, hmmmmm..maybe if
s/he only using one, but think about what happens if s/he
drops it while scramping out of the way and player gets hung
up in it. Could be nasty...JMO

glen

I found the rule. Fed Baseball, 2002 rule boook states:

3-2-1 "...Coaches may wear prostheses and use mobility devices." (New addition for 2002)

10-1-7 "...Umpires may wear prostheses and use mobility devices." (new addition for 2002)

Mobility devices are not addressed in the Softball book...yet.

Players may use prostheses and padded casts, splints, and braces. (2002 softball rule book 1-1-9.) Coaches only need to wear proper clothing. (3-2-1) Umpires may wear casts, splints, and braces if padded. (10-1-7)

Stay tuned for next year's changes.

Roger Greene

Hey, something to look forward to. When my knees finally go, I can still work HS ball from behind the plate in my wheelchair!

This is getting goofier and goofier.

They make a walker with a nice set of wheels (with handbrakes) on two of the legs, and a fold down seat for calling pitches. Would be nice on those tournament days when the relief doesn't show up for their rotation.

Roger Greene

Did anyone else read this on the FED site?

10-1-7 (New) Add to the end of the rule: Umpires may wear prostheses and use mobility devices.
Rationale: To make the rule consistent for the officials, as well as the coaches.

Can you envision a PU in a wheelchair? Or on crutches? WHOOPEE!!!

Bob

Coach wheels himself into the third-base box. You tell him he can't be there, you're in the papers the next day for your brutal, callous treatment of a handicapped person. You let him stay, and you're the fool who was oblivious to a clear and present danger and caused that poor third-baseman to cut his eye. Either way, your next ten years are spent in court. And that's even if you remember not to use the old slang for the 3-0 count.

Happens to me, I will voice deep concern for the coach's right to 100% participation in a wheelchair and deep concern for the safety of the players. I will then announce that I have inquired of the Fed, and that the game will start as soon as I receive their official direction in writing.

I recall a news article not too long ago about a person confined to a wheelchair that was umpiring slowpitch softball. I beleive it was somewhere in the Northwest part of the country.

There was a court case involving the safety of the players and the possibility of injury in colliding with a wheelchair bound umpire. I don't remember the specifics, but I beleive the league/organization won the court decision and this person was no longer allowed to umpire. I am going to try to research it..if anyone else remembers this, let us know. It seems that I read about it in Referee Magazine.

[Edited by Andy on May 6th, 2002 at 04:27 PM]

The latest in umpire mobility devices
 

<a href=http://www.segway.com>The Segway</a>

Thanks Roger, I did not think it was in Softball Rules
 

I looked all through that NFHS 2002 book and like you only
found that coaches had to be properly attaired..but if BB
has it, then WOW, we are next.....like most of you I can
hardly wait. Lets see, 64 presently, 65 before end of year.
Not long and I just might qualify. My AARP magazine is also
trying to get me to purchase a mobile wheel chair, with cup
holder...this may not be so bad after all. [grin]

glen

Joel,

You sure that wasn't <i>mobile device</i> ...i.e Cellphone.
Nautrally I am just a picking on you.
How did Lauren and her team do in the tournament? I had a
small 14/16U thing, but not many teams...Good thing too, it
was to hot anyway...I ended up doing three straight plates
at the end of the thing...

glen

I think that probably the best course of action concerning the coach in the wheelchair is have your assocation president or booking agent call the head honcho over NFHS in your state. If he deems it okay, then he is responsible for any liabitity, not the blues.

I am not a lawyer, BUT I practice a profession that has many similarities: structural engineering (I design buildings). In my profession we have model codes for concrete, steel, timber, masonry, and seismic design. These model codes are many times adopted in total by various government entities as their design codes. When I design a building my first priority is safety, even if it means not always giving my client what he wants. It also means that I cannot not rely just on meeting the minimum design requirements required by code. I must use good enigneering judgement and assess the unique design requirements of the project.

As umpires in the field we have a unique perspective on the situation. The legislators, who write these laws, and the judges, who must interprete these laws, do not have this unique perspective, even though one would think that a judge would, considering that officiating is a lot like making interpretations of laws. When a player gets hurt because of a coach, in a wheelchair, is in the way, I can assure you that, the only persons who will be held accountable for that player's injuries will be the umpires on the field. Even though U.S. law says that the umpires must let that coach, in the wheelchair, the courts will no doubt also rule that the umpires know the hazards better than anybody of having a wheelchair bound coach on the field, and will hold the umpires and only the umpires accountable for that player's injuries.

While I do not ever want to be sued, I would rather be sued by a wheelchair bound coach because I would not let him on the field rather than be sued by the parents of a player injured by wheelchair bound coach. The lawsuit by the coach will be easier to defend, though difficult, than a lawsuit by the player's parents.

Mark,
I beg to disagree. Following the law and the applicable rules is generally pretty good protection in any type suit. (The main reason I never allow a batter to warm up in the opposing team's on deck circle.)

I am a Judicial Official. I am called upon to rule on tort cases as part of that profession.

Roger Greene

But you must admit, Roger, that horror stories abound, and tort reform has been much discussed over the past decade.

Moron got hurt trying to lower a flag, sued, and under joint and several liability, a company that did not even manufacture the flag in question had to pay big bucks.

Don't be surprised that many Americans have little faith in the courts, or at least, as Jefferson said, want to stay as far from them as possible.

Like most "horror stories" you fail to hear all the details.

The American Justice System is not perfect, but I would defend the English/American based skystem over any other in history.

How many of you would wish to be tried under Mulla Omar's system?

Roger Greene

And so would I defend it, and I wouldn't want to live ANYPLACE else. But we have to do better than find it superior to the Taliban system. I don't think ours is a great system with few little flaws. It's a great system with serious flaws, and notably in the tort area.

The details of the flag case were presented quite fully in the Wall Street Journal about ten years ago. Justice did not prevail. It is of course true that the media often sensationalize court decisions that upon close examination don't seem so crazy. But how about the guy who was awarded a quarter of a BILLION dollars when his child was killed because HE ran a stop sign, a fact that couldn't be revealed in court? No evidence whatsoever that any defect in the vehicle even existed, much less played a part. Don't fret, said the system's defenders, another court might reduce the award.

And don't get me started on the criminal system. I've seen too many utter absurdities firsthand. Yes, I would far rather be tried in the U.S. than anywhere else, certainly if I were guilty.

So let's start a legal forum.

[Edited by greymule on May 8th, 2002 at 01:01 PM]

Standby everyone. We just got an answer from our great State High School fearless ???? leaders. Guess what? your right, they can understand our concern for the safety of the players BUT we must take every consideration into effect and allow the coach on the field. So the gain of one is over the possible injury to many. It was a nice three page letter with a lot of song and dance to it but the ADA law will win out and they do not want any part of that. SOOOOOOOO everyone standby and get ready for any type of mobility device on the field. Go time for the umpires to invent a mobile rocking chair or golf cart for the field. We have not given up on this yet and are still trying to do something. Thanks for all your help and comments.

You may be legally correct Your Honor, but there is alway jury nulification. If I were a betting man, I would bet dollars to donuts that if umpires let a coach in a wheelchair on the field and a player gets hurt, the jury will find against the umpires for letting the coach on the field. And no matter what the law says, the umpires responsibility is to the safety of the players and the to indulge the stupidity of a coach in a wheelchair.

In March, I was an alternate juror in a liablity case: a neurosurgeon was being sued by a former patient. The jury spent less than 45 minutes before finding for the neurosurgeon. Fortunately for the neurosurgeon, the eight members and two alternates were all college graduates and were able to understand the complexities of the case and it indeed was complex. But the case was a perfect example of why I believe that tort cases involving the scientific professions should be tried in special courts where there is peer revue instead of a jury of people not learned in the science involved.

I'll take that bet. Of course, I have more faith in a judge than jury.

<i>Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. quotes.......

But the case was a perfect example of why I believe that tort cases involving the scientific professions should be tried in special courts where there is peer revue instead of a jury of people not learned in the science involved.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Rules Interpreter &
Instructional Chairman
Wood Co. Bkb. Off. Assn.
Bowling Green, Ohio</i>

As a basketball official Mark.........you of all people know this better than everyone........

Basketball fans are the MOST ignorant.......rowdy.......ignorant.......vocal... ...incessant.......ignorant.......loudest......... .ignorant......(Did I say Ignorant?)........of all sports fans out there..........grin

I would still hide behind whatever my State Association told me to do........

They are after all.......the ones with the "deep pockets"...........I don't have anything they want........grin

Joel

Remember, any civil action may be appealed.

Bob

Guess What happened?
Today I was assigned the game with the coach in the wheel chair and it was a divisional playoff game and I was assigned the plate. Prior to the game I had briefed my other two partners on how we would hand this game. So when we got to the field and called for coaches and captains he never showed up. I asked what happen to him, being very polite, and was told he had fallen out of his wheelchair when he was in the yard and broke his leg and had to go to the hospital. I guess the blue in the sky was looking over me and I never had to do or say anything, except I hope he is alright and hope everything will be OK for him.
Could you imagine if this had happened on the field? I think we would of had every lawyer in the world looking for a piece of this action. Its not over yet if they win the game next week he will be back on the field in a cast and in a wheelchair.

It would be impossible to hide behind a StateHSAA. The collapse of the Hyatt Regency in Kansas City in the late 1970's is a good example. The structural engineers in that case said that their designs were changed by the steel fabricator and construction company and their contract did not call for them to inspect the work. That defense was unsuccessful. Two lost their license to practice engineering in Missouri and they lost the law suit against them for damages.

Just make sure that everything is properly padded! :D

Scott

No offense, Mark, but aren't you just a little paranoid for an umpire? Or anal? If I were as afraid as you seem to be, I would quit umpiring and my regular job and work from home where it is MUCH safer! JMHO Some folks on this board may appreciate your comments, but I feel like I'm being scolded by an over protective parent! Stay where you are, don't move to Atlanta!

The final chapter for this story, at least for this year, has come to an end. The wheelchair coaches team made the playoff and in the first round (regional playoff) he showed up in a wheelchair and in a cast (broken leg). When the game began he stayed in the dugout and stayed there the entire game. As the game proceeded his team lost and thus we do not have to deal with this problem any more this season. I do not know if someone talked to him or he came to his senses. But remember we have next year, so maybe by then there will be something in the rule book to cover this and anything else about mobility devices. Once again I thank you for all your advise and help.

Its not a matter of being paranoid or anal. It is called due diligence. As officials we are expected to know better than anyone else dangers a coach in a wheelchair on the playing field can cause. Officiating an athletic contest and designing building structures are very similiar activities. When it comes to the safety of players in an athletic contest, I apply the same guiding prinicples that I use in designing buildings. To quote Spock: "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few."

A wheelchair bound coach who insists on being on the playing field is not different than the client who wants his structural engineer to design a structure that is in direct conflict with good engineering judgement. It is the responsibility of the engineer to tell his client that now matter how much he wants something, he is not going to get it because it violates the principles of good engineering judgement.