Lightning guidelines
 

I believe someone has posted it here before, but I can't find it.

Is there something in a rule book - any ruleset - with guidelines for dealing with lightning?

I looked in the ASA and NFHS book and couldn't find anything...

NCAA covers it
 

Try the NCAA Rulebook, Appendix E.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uplo...708c4cf6f2.pdf

ASA covers it on their website, here:

http://www.asasoftball.com/about/lightning.asp

Look again at the NFHS book, page 6 under "Guidelines on Handling Contests During Lightning Disturbances"

I was going to say that I knew it was in the NFHS rulebook.

In Ohio in every outdoor sport's pre-season manual we get 2 pages of "advice" on handling inclement weather. But at every State Rules meeting we are told, if you hear thunder or see lightning, get the field cleared for 30 minutes after the last sign of lightning. They powers in Columbus have said they will back any official in any sport that suspends or cancels a contest as a result of hearing thunder or seeing lightning. I will and have not hesitated in pulling teams off the field. I don't do thunderstorms very well:p .

I'm surprised at the number of umpires who try to keep their games going, despite visible lightning in the area (within 10 miles). Then I get the crazy looks from teams, fellow umpires and local field supervisors when I pull my players off the field and tell them to wait. :mad:

Or with stupid umpires, when told to clear the teams from the field and dugouts, who reply "we only need one more out." Last time I checked, lightning can't count. Dave

OTOH, as a parent watching a game at a field with 60' to 80' light poles and 25' chain-link back stops, surrounded by 50' to 70' tall trees, I have questioned the wisdom of taking my 5'10" DD off the field to put her in a chain-link pen with a metal roof, connected to this 25' fence, and sitting her on an aluminum bench (for which the back rest is this same 25' tall fence).

Looking at the angles, I think I'd rather her be on the field.

I ask coaches at HS games, to remove their players to the cars or buses. I will repeat that request when I see coaches who don't comply. However, I have had both coaches and parents argue that "it is raining too hard," or something along those lines. My belief then, is, you can lead a horse to water....

We are required to get the teams off the field and out of the dugouts. We can't be expected to take everyone's hand and lead them to their cars, their parent's cars or the bus. The coaches need to take a little initiative on their own. Dave

I have a handout on this site dealing with lightning safety, taken from information published by the National Weather Service.

Your concern about kids staying in the bench area, near the chain link fence is justified, but your best alternative is NOT to stand out in an open field. Here is an excerpt from my handout:

I did a tournament earlier this year where the TD wanted to continue the games even though the tornado warning sirens were sounding... :rolleyes:

Have ever read a report about a herd of cows getting electrocuted? If you have, weren't they huddled under a tree? Ever read one where the cow was in the middle of a pasture?

I can see sending the kids to their cars or to a large building. The practice I object to is that of sending them to the dugout.

On the field I was describing, except for the center fielder, the players are all seem closer to the bottom of the nearest light pole than the top of the light pole is to the bottom (while probably a safe distance away), while on the field. It is my assertion that the kids are safer in the field than near the backstop/light poles.

Being out in a field during a lightning storm is not a safe place to be, even though there are MORE dangerous places to be (such as leaning against the back stop). No one is arguing that the dugout is a safe place.

Being directly hit by lightning is not the only hazard. The charge will travel along the surface of the ground for some distance, and this has nothing to do with how tall the item directly hit is.

While lightning TENDS to strike the tallest grounded object, that is no guarantee. It will TEND to strike the tallest object in the middle of a sports field.

http://www.geo-outdoors.info/images/dead_cows_small.jpg

These people were on an open field when lightning struck!

If we would have taken a picture I could show what 6 cows look like after they were struck by lightning in the middle of the feild. They were almost
200' away from any other object, so don't think that it's any safer putting your youngster out in center feild. Like everyone is saying, get them to proper cover ASAP.

My belief then, is, you can lead a horse to water.... But you can't make him think.

Bob

Amen to that.
And it's a good thing we have no responsibility for making a coach think. I'm not really sure those words go together weill - in some cases.:confused:

Found this old post, so thought I'd ask my question here.

I arrived at a men's wreck league game the other night. It was 15 minutes before game time and we had lightning and a huge thunderclap. I drove into the main field area from the parking lot and informed the players there that we'd be waiting 30 minutes from that last boomer, and another 30 for any subsequent flashes/thunder.

They protested that it wasn't game time yet. I'm assuming their argument was that any lightning/thunder that occurred prior to game time does not come into play for purposes of holding up a game.

I told them my clock was already running and we'd not play until we had had 30 minutes lightning/thunder-free skies.

Turned out to be a moot point as a few minutes later, the field was deluged and made the decision easy.

Most of these guys probably had the incentive to start on time because it was the 6th game of the NHL Finals and they wanted to get home to see it. (That part was accomplished.)

Thoughts on when you start your clocks or if there is an specific game time mandate?

Thanx.

That's why it really should not be clear the field, it should be clear the stadium. This means go to a bus, car or if available building (not the dugout).

I had several instances this season of weather delays during track meets I was officiating. It was made clear you went inside the bus or inside the buildings at the track, and did not stay outside. One of these storms was a full blown 60 plus mph wind and hail storm. The other was flashes of light every few minutes and maybe 5 drops of rain total. Try explaining to coaches, athletes and parents that they need to stay inside and away from the track when it isn't raining and the sun is coming out.

There was a strike at a boy scout camp recently that left several people injured although none critically. The scouts had all huddled under a tent in a wooded campsite area. Lightning struck a tall tree at the edge of the campsite, traveled through the ground underneath the scouts, and exited via another nearby tree. The scouts, and leaders all had signs of being struck including tingling, muscle cramps, and spider web pattern burns on their skin. They were all under a tent in a campsite in a wooded area. If lightning is going to strike, it will strike. It doesn't care where you are.

I personally have almost been struck twice. Once when I was young, I went to open the back door of the house to let the dog in. Lightning struck the big Willow Tree, came though that and blasted a chunk of the back step apart. The only injury I suffered were cuts from the exploding concrete steps. The second time I was in bed at another house when I felt tingling. As I got up I witness lightning strike the well head just outside my bedroom window. The lightning also came into the house as well, causing a small fire near my bedroom window.

Good job on waiting !

Of course not, just don't play within 30 minutes of t/l.

I had a confrontation at a park about a month ago when some idiots decided that the thunder *surrounding* the park wasn't adequate to stop the game.

No, I wasn't the umpire. I was the parent of an 8-year-old player. The umpire finally "ejected" me from the vicinity of the field (when I couldn't get the coaches to do anything, I grabbed his attention between innings against my better judgment) and I had a subsequent confrontation with the tournament directors, who have no clue about lightning protocols, only that "we didn't see a lightning bolt and we can play until there's visible lightning."

They didn't like my reply, "You know, it's all around us. The first one you see could kill everyone on the field."

All this to keep on schedule for a tournament for EIGHT YEAR OLDS.

I don't go to many games anymore because my daughter's coach is a moron who sided with the umpire and the tournament staff and sent me an email telling me I was completely out of line. My wife, though, sided with me and has promised me that she will pull my kid to the car if anything like that ever happens again.

I am currently only working high school softball. FHSAA has well defined guidelines which only a fool would not follow. Fortunately the high school season from the end of January to May does not usually have a lot of lightning storms. I couldn't imagine working summer ball down here during our rainy/tropical storm season.
Yes, a car or bus or inside a steel frame building would be my choice for shelter.

Page 180 in the 2013 ASA book

It is our duty to postpone play for the Time allowed 30 minutes. I tell the Coach that my partner and I will be in the car. That's it, the coach gets training on what to do. It is not our responsibility. Do not direct anyone what they should do.

No, it isn't. We suspend play for the time it is necessary for the safety issue to pass.

We instruct the teams that the game is suspended. I prefer that to postponed as I have found many to take that as it being rescheduled at a later date and leave, but that certainly isn't what we mean during a simple delay.

Rich:

I understand your frustration. We all know that: Using facts and logic with an idiot is like having a gun fight with an unarmed man. Why didn't you pull your child from the field.

Years ago when our younger son was playing lite-weight football (he was 10 years old at the time) and his team practiced at our E.S. playground field 1-1/2 blocks from our home. Practice was after school and a thunderstorm rolled through the area. I went to the field figuring that the coaches would stop practice and move the players to a safe place. Much to my surprise the team was still practicing and parents were standing around thinking it was okay. I walked out onto the field and told the HC (who know that I was a H.S. baseball and fast pitch softball umpire) that he needed to get the team off of the field because of storm, he told me that the lightning was not directly over them so he was going to continue to practice the team. I told him: 1) I was taking Andy home; 2) He was not even going to think about penalizing Andy for my actions; and 3) He was an idiot for not stopping practice. I took Andy home.

Sometimes you just have to take the bull by the tail and face the situation.

MTD, Sr.

I was hoping they'd see the logic. They didn't. I was talking with people who had no common sense.

No it isn't what ? Yes postponed is a better way to say it. Really what did I say that you can say " No, it Isn't" Wow simply stop the game and go to the car. You are really taking me to task. This is a FORUM for everyone... Not just you !!!!

Reading 101.

You really think this is a reading problem ??? I say follow whatever your guidelines are, people mentioned 30 minutes. Do not give any instructions on what to do. I think this is a CLONE problem. I told Mike that I would not do it anymore but you people can not help yourself. You make me do it. Get out there and do something wrong just once in your life. You just may say wow this is great. Look what I have been missing all of my CLONNE life.

What are you talking about? Steve is correct, umpires "suspend" games until all the safety issues are resolved. Could that lead to postponement or cancellation? Sure could, but that is not the umpire's immediate concern.

Too many people hang on 30 minutes. It used to be 20. It used to be only lightning and then they added "hearing thunder". Too many people hang on that too.

You like to talk about common sense, then that is what this is. Too often in this world alleged "experts" come to a conclusion, put them to paper and people treat them like the ten commandments.

If you know the area is clear of danger, play on. I don't need a piece of paper and a watch to tell me when it is safe. Even the lightning guidelines allow for use of equipment. Personally, I have used certified weather observers and ATC to clear the games to continue and don't sit on my hands waiting on a clock to hit 30 minutes.

I hope you are not an ASA umpire because if you are you had better adhere to the 30 minute rules as listed in the ASA Rules Book. That standard is just about universally adopted by most governing bodies. The OhioHSAA and MichigaHSAA use the same rule as the ASA does for all of its outdoor sports.

MTD, Sr.

That may be true in your area relating to state high school adoptions. Not at all true here.

The ASA Rules Book doesn't have a lightning rule that must be adhered to. It calls it a guideline, and says "should", not shall or must.

Nor is it listed as a rule in the Rules Book. It is a portion of the "Safety Awareness Guide".

And if you read the ASA book like a good ASA umpire does, you will notice that ASA gave alternatives to the "30-minute" guideline in the 2012 book. They also encourage using common sense in judging weather issues.

In championship play in either 2010 or 2011, we suspended the 18U A winner's final due to a little rain, some thunder and lightning. After it stopped and the clouds started to break-up, my PU, who is an ATC and certified weather observer called the airport control tower 30 miles to the North of the field. The ATC to whom he was talking has a DD in softball and knew exactly where the field was.

With both coaches listening to the conversation with me (UIC), the ATC told us the storm had cleared the area, there was no more notable activity for more than 100 miles to the South. During the discussion, the ATC noted that they have already rerouted planes back into the area (something that wouldn't have happened had there been any danger).

Asked the coaches if they would be ready to go in 5 and they both agreed. The total time since the last thunder or lightning was less than 20 minutes.

In five, we were playing again. One parent got in my face telling me I could not start the game up again. Told her we were cleared to go by the highest authority in the area and if she wanted to talked to her child's coach, she should. She was screaming that lightning was hitting the ground. I told her that was pretty good since the airport told us the closest possible activity was 10 miles North of the airport which made it 40 miles away from us. She told me she was going to complain to ASA and I told her where to find the number. Both coaches disclaimed any association with this lady. Did I happen to mention that it was so clear, the stars were visible in every direction as far as you can see?

And if you have ever worked in Lakeland, they will stop games 5 minutes prior to the storm hitting the area and have you back on the field within 10 minutes after the storm has passed. These people are pros and know exactly what they are doing. A 30 minute clock is not going to make it any more dangerous or safer.

In no way am I endorsing or suggesting people taking any unnecessary chances with weather.

You are aware that strikes can occur as far as 15 miles away from the "storm" that is causing them right.

If you fail to adhere to the guidelines listed in the rules you are putting yourself at risk of not being covered by liability insurance should something happen. 30 minutes is a guideline based on scientific research, not a randomly selected number.

No, that is not correct. You are covered by your insurance.

You do what you feel comfortable doing, that's fin. I'll keep going with the pros. Thank you.

They reroute planes primarily for dangerous winds and microbursts. An aircraft can and does take lightning strikes. An 11 yr old can't. Children have been KILLED by lightning strikes up to 20 miles away.

Yes, if you have expert knowledge or lightning detectors avail, you can get a more precise answer. But otherwise, it is the height of irresponsibility to ignore the guidelines. I don't care if my insurance covers me or not - I'm not about to risk a child's funeral for a game.

Yes, planes have survived lightning strikes, but not all of them. Lightning has taken down planes. But because it is a rarity, doesn't mean ATC challenges Mother Nature. The comment was from the guy who moves these things professionally for over two decades.

And really, playing a sympathy card using children?

Better make sure I never tell anyone about the meteorite I saw AND continued to play.

I will let you fight that situation with your insurance. Me, I will be waiting the 30 minutes provided in the rules an guidelines of every organization sponsoring outdoor sports.

There is no fight. In ASA, your insurance covers you even if you are stupid. They may not like it and in the long run may cause an increase in the premium which will affect all umpires, but your insurance is intact.

Claims that your insurance is void if you permit use of an illegal or non-approved piece of equipment in the game, or if you umpire two teams that want to continue playing after the game was "officially" ended due a forfeit and the many other "what ifs" people bring up are just tales used to not umpire such games.

This has been clearly stated at every presentation (20+) offered by Bollinger (not some local "expert") at an ASA meeting or clinic I have attended. What is also true is that it may be suggested you retain your own legal council should a claim exceed the limit of coverage, but that would be true in any case. It is this part that I choose not to work such type of games. Just because I have insurance doesn't mean I am willing to test its coverage.

Well, we're primarily officiating games involving children, so I hardly see that as "playing a sympathy card". And to equate lightning safety delays to a meteorite is absurd and ridiculous. I see no further purpose debating this. You do what you feel comfortable with, I'll do the same. And I don't care whether insurance covers me or not, I'm not putting a child's life, an adult's life, and sure as hell my own in danger for the sake of a few minutes of a game.

Maybe you are, I'm not.

I wasn't. It was a comparison in the ludicrous, rare examples people pull out of the air when people disagree. Hey, want to discuss the plus and minuses of pot? How about taste great or less filling?

And at no time did I suggest anyone do so, but you would have known that if you read the posts without a predetermined position.

You have no problem arguing that not abiding by the 30 minute guideline is ok, but you also state "Just because I have insurance doesn't mean I am willing to test its coverage." Makes me wonder about you.

You missed his point entirely.

FWIW, the 30-minute guideline is the authoritative recommendation of the National Weather Service. The presumption is that there are no other capabilities available to determine when it is safe, which is probably the case for 90+% of our games. I know I don't have access to lightning detectors, NOAA radios, etc., in games I do, nor are any of my friends professional air traffic controllers.

Why wait the full 30 minutes if you do have access to vetted evidence that the storm is long gone? Heck, around here, another storm will be approaching before those 30 minutes pass. Use the tools that you have available. If you don't have them, then go with the 30-minute guidelines.

No friends that are Air Traffic Controllers? - Maybe you should have spent your time in the Air Force. :D

Oh and by the way, here's an interesting little article that might not want to read before your trip down to FL.;);)

http://goflorida.about.com/od/florid.../weather_5.htm


I've been looking for an Android App that could show a map with my location and lightning strikes for a couple of years...
Just the other day (at a tornament) the UIC's wife turned me on to "Spark" which comes with the app "Weatherbug"
It updates every minute and tells you where the nearest lightning is and also has a little map feature.
I can't vouch for it's accuracy, but am trying to read up on it.

Weatherbug itself does a pretty nice job of showing stom movement.

'96 Men's A Industrial, late morning the UIC & Umpire Coodinator come to the fields and instruct us to stop the game and get everyone off the field and tell them to find cover. Everyone, umpires, players & fans, was confused as to what was going on. Sun was out and hot, no sign of anything threatening. We got to the umpire area, laughing and joking around, but still confused. Less than five minutes later, a nasty thunderstorm blew through with some rain, some lightning and, obviously, thunder. About 10 minutes or so later, the told the umpires to return to the fields and get em going again in about 5 minutes. Actually took closer to 10-15 by the time the teams got back from the parking lot.

The point is they did not hesitate once they knew the storm had cleared. The Tampa-Lakeland area is constantly dealing with this type of weather and they are the professionals when it comes to dealing with it. The whole area lightning-centric and I wouldn't hesitate for a second in trusting their judgment. .

One of the issues with T-storms is how quick they can develop. While I was still growing up, we had an issue with storms that quickly developed after another left the area. HS Football opener. Stadium was cleared as a T-storm moved through. 15 minutes passed since the last sight/sound of lightning/thunder (Guidelines in place at the time). Everyone is brought back into the stadium. As soon as the first snap after it resumed occurred. A huge flash of lightning occurred causing the stadium to be cleared again. As people were leaving the stadium going into the HS, a bolt hits the light pole, goes through the pole to the ground and seriously injures 9 high school students walking from the stadium towards the school.

The storm had suddenly developed largely from moisture that was left by the departing storm. The weather radar showed the storm developed rapidly right over the top of the stadium within a matter of a couple minutes.

This isn't the first time a storm like this developed quickly. Storms like this have been known to bring down planes. It might look clear after a storm, then suddenly, with little warning, another storm develops and all heck breaks loose.

Waiting the 30 minutes is a highly recommended guideline that should be followed. You never know what will happen after one storm has hit. Most of the time nothing happens, but there is always that slight chance that something bad will happen and that chance to to great to risk the life of people on a softball diamond.

My final comment on this topic.

WE, as umpires, have a duty to make sure the game is safe for all parties involved, including us as umpires, players, coaches and spectators. The single largest danger in outdoor sports is the weather.

No single weather phenomenon has the ability to cause quick and destructive damage to a softball game and everyone involved in it as that of a thunderstorm.

WE need to take the utmost care in dealing with these storms. The ASA's guidelines do allow for the return to play before 30 minutes when an advanced lightning detection system is in use. I understand that, but I personally still don't feel comfortable with allowing play to resume in less than 30 minutes even if a system is in use. The reason is that weather is too unpredictable. I have seen a storm develop right behind another storm too many times to think it won't happen. I have seen these advanced detection systems not sound and alarm when thunder and lightning are present in the area. I have seen too many storm related problems to trust that an electronic system will be able to protect people properly from storms.

I will always follow the guideline of 30 minutes even if the there is an electronic device that tells me it is safe. I would much rather get fired from working a tourney and have to fight to get paid than have someone get seriously injured or killed and have to fight a wrongful death lawsuit in court. Nobody's life is worth the risk of a few minutes of game time. There is way to much risk to getting going quickly and way to little reward.

I am glad that our local league has made it very clear that even in locations with an advanced detection system (2 of the many parks we use), we will not restart games until after the 30 minutes is up.

I am glad that I took a week off, I am going to speak about the Weather Bug App. I use it all of the time, it is a great tool to have. I still must wait 30 minutes. NY State says so, we do not have the same problems as in the south.

And the beat goes on

And I was thinking of telling the meteor story. Guess not a good idea.