Fair Ball?

[jumpmaster]

ASA Rules, Fastpitch softball

I am a baseball umpire and don't know squat about fast-pitch softball.

Saw this situation last night, bases loaded, 0 outs. BR hits pitch that nose-dives into the dirt immediatly in front of home plate and comes to rest touching the front left-hand corner of the plate. Catcher picks up ball, touches home, 1 out, throw to F3, 2 outs, throw to F5 who tags runner moving from 1st to 2nd. Triple Play! BU yells FOUL BALL! FOUL BALL!

I am thinking the BU blew this one. In baseball, this is a fair ball and the ball is live. Is it the same in fast-pitch softball?

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jumpmaster al

[shipwreck]

BU hollers foul ball? First of all that isn't his call to make. Second, even if it was ok for him to call it, you mean to tell me he can see that from 80' away. Third what you describe, that is a fair ball. He blew and I mean blew this whole call. By the way, what was the PU doing during this time, looking at a babe in the stands? Dave

[Dakota]

Originally posted by jumpmaster
ASA Rules, Fastpitch softball

...comes to rest touching the front left-hand corner of the plate...

The plate is entirely in fair territory, just like in baseball.

The fair/foul call is based on the position of the ball when touched, just like baseball.

If I am visualizing correctly your description of where the ball was (completely or mostly in fair terriory, resting against the edge of the plate), it sounds to me like the umpire kicked it.

Was the ball actually in foul territory just resting against the "foul side" of the plate? If so, I can see a foul ball call.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by shipwreck
BU hollers foul ball?

Missed that in reading the description.

Makes me wonder if the BU saw the ball hit the batter while still in the box - that WOULD be his call to make.

[jumpmaster]

Thanks for the answers.

I didn't see or hear the ball hit that batter, nor did it take a "funny" bounce like 99.9% of the batted balls that hit a batter. But, then again, I didn't have the angle.

The ball was resting entirely in fair territory against the edge of the plate that faces 2nd base.

I think, because of how long it took the BU to make a call, that he was thinking, something like "did that hit the plate. . .that's a foul ball. . .my partner didn't call it. . .yeah, I'm pretty sure it's foul. . .FOUL BALL! FOUL BALL!".

The ringer on this whole thing. . .the next batter hits a triple, and the team that had the triple play revoked. . .lost by 3 runs.

--
jumpmaster al

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by Dakota

The plate is entirely in fair territory, just like in baseball.

The fair/foul call is based on the position of the ball when touched, just like baseball.

If I am visualizing correctly your description of where the ball was (completely or mostly in fair terriory, resting against the edge of the plate), it sounds to me like the umpire kicked it.

Was the ball actually in foul territory just resting against the "foul side" of the plate? If so, I can see a foul ball call.

If the ball is touching the plate, it's FAIR. Just like touching 1B or 3B.

Bob

[Dakota]

Originally posted by bluezebra
If the ball is touching the plate, it's FAIR. Just like touching 1B or 3B.

Bob

I agree.

All I meant was I can see room for judgment (is it or is it not touching?) Kind of like the arguments on the baseball board last year about the curve of the ball overhanging the foul line. It is where the umpire says it is.

But, all of that was before I realized it was the BU who called it foul.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by jumpmaster
Thanks for the answers.

I didn't see or hear the ball hit that batter, nor did it take a "funny" bounce like 99.9% of the batted balls that hit a batter. But, then again, I didn't have the angle.

The ball was resting entirely in fair territory against the edge of the plate that faces 2nd base.

I think, because of how long it took the BU to make a call, that he was thinking, something like "did that hit the plate. . .that's a foul ball. . .my partner didn't call it. . .yeah, I'm pretty sure it's foul. . .FOUL BALL! FOUL BALL!".

The ringer on this whole thing. . .the next batter hits a triple, and the team that had the triple play revoked. . .lost by 3 runs.

--
jumpmaster al

jumpmaster, even if the ball hits the plate and remains in fair
territory, touching homeplate, we have a fair ball. BU has some
of the best eyes I have heard of. S/he is about 75-85 feet from
that play. What was PU doing? {I am referring to the underlined
portion}

[jumpmaster]

Whiskers_ump,
I could not see the PU's face, but I would assume that he was off in LA LA land, enjoying the weather. ;-) I don't know what he was thinking, could have been he was looking for the ball and then got distracted with all the commotion. Could have been he knew it was a fair ball and was watching the play develop. He did rule R3 out at home. I am not sure why he didn't have a discussion with his partner and "rectify" the situation. Whatever it was, I had a valuable lesson reinforced. It is not merely enough to pass the rules exam and put the rule book away. The art of being an umpire requires constance reinforcement and study of the rules and their applications, in order to be what we are supposed to be.

I am a rookie ump and all this brings about a question that I hadn't thought of. . .If I am the PU and my partner makes a FUBAR call like this. Can I conference with him and see if he will change is call (NOT overrule him!)? Or can he even nullify a foul ball call? We exist to do the right thing for the game and the kids, Doesn't that give us an obligation to fix this screwup?

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jumpmaster al