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John Robertson Thu Jul 17, 2008 08:29pm
On-Deck Batter interferes with ball four
 
Here's one that happened tonight:

Runner on third base. Batter up with a 3-0 count. Pitch comes in low for ball four. It bounces off the catcher's shin guard and rolls toward the on-deck batter. The runner at third is not especially fast and cautiously goes about one-third of the way down the line as the catcher chases the ball near the on-deck circle. Just as the catcher goes to pick the ball up, the on-deck batter decides to be "helpful" and kicks the ball towards the catcher!

I called time sent the runner back to third and made the batter-runner go no further than first on the walk. If either the runner at third or the batter-runner had been trying to advance on the play, I would have called the on-deck batter out for interference--which would have been a first for me.

Would anyone have called interference regardless?

wadeintothem Thu Jul 17, 2008 08:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robertson
Here's one that happened tonight:

Runner on third base. Batter up with a 3-0 count. Pitch comes in low for ball four. It bounces off the catcher's shin guard and rolls toward the on-deck batter. The runner at third is not especially fast and cautiously goes about one-third of the way down the line as the catcher chases the ball near the on-deck circle. Just as the catcher goes to pick the ball up, the on-deck batter decides to be "helpful" and kicks the ball towards the catcher!

I called time sent the runner back to third and made the batter-runner go no further than first on the walk. If either the runner at third or the batter-runner had been trying to advance on the play, I would have called the on-deck batter out for interference--which would have been a first for me.

Would anyone have called interference regardless?
You dont call out an on deck batter :) YOu would call out the runner closest to home on this type of INT. I think you gotta call it here. IF you decided it wasnt INT, I believe you would leave it live.

John Robertson Thu Jul 17, 2008 08:55pm
I umpire in Canada. Unless I'm mistaken, the rule of thumb here is to always call out the person who is responsible for creating the interference unless he/she has already scored or been put out. Generally this can't be done if the on-deck hitter is the culprit. This might be splitting hairs, but in this case, because of ball four, could the on-deck batter now be considered the new batter, and thus be called out? Otherwise, I agree that the runner on third would be called out for being the runner closest to the plate.

You see something new every year...

IRISHMAFIA Thu Jul 17, 2008 09:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robertson
I umpire in Canada. Unless I'm mistaken, the rule of thumb here is to always call out the person who is responsible for creating the interference unless he/she has already scored or been put out. Generally this can't be done if the on-deck hitter is the culprit. This might be splitting hairs, but in this case, because of ball four, could the on-deck batter now be considered the new batter, and thus be called out? Otherwise, I agree that the runner on third would be called out for being the runner closest to the plate.

You see something new every year...
No, speaking ASA, the runner closest to home would be ruled out.

AtlUmpSteve Thu Jul 17, 2008 09:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robertson
Here's one that happened tonight:

Runner on third base. Batter up with a 3-0 count. Pitch comes in low for ball four. It bounces off the catcher's shin guard and rolls toward the on-deck batter. The runner at third is not especially fast and cautiously goes about one-third of the way down the line as the catcher chases the ball near the on-deck circle. Just as the catcher goes to pick the ball up, the on-deck batter decides to be "helpful" and kicks the ball towards the catcher!

I called time sent the runner back to third and made the batter-runner go no further than first on the walk. If either the runner at third or the batter-runner had been trying to advance on the play, I would have called the on-deck batter out for interference--which would have been a first for me.

Would anyone have called interference regardless?
To be interference, you must judge there was a play. That play may be a runner advancing, that play may be the catcher throwing behind the caitious runner on third. If you think that happened, you should call interference, and the runner closest to home must be out.

On the other hand, if you think there was no play, you cannot have interference; you have a blocked ball (since a live ball was handled and redirected by the offense). Dead ball, and runners return is a valid call, in that situation.

whiskers_ump Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
To be interference, you must judge there was a play. That play may be a runner advancing, that play may be the catcher throwing behind the caitious runner on third. If you think that happened, you should call interference, and the runner closest to home must be out.

On the other hand, if you think there was no play, you cannot have interference; you have a blocked ball (since a live ball was handled and redirected by the offense). Dead ball, and runners return is a valid call, in that situation.

Agree.

wadeintothem Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

On the other hand, if you think there was no play, you cannot have interference; you have a blocked ball (since a live ball was handled and redirected by the offense). Dead ball, and runners return is a valid call, in that situation.
sounds good to me too!

charliej47 Fri Jul 18, 2008 05:25am
I've had this happen more than once with the younger players, but never the older ones. I always call the ball dead and don't let anyone advance.

Scooby Fri Jul 18, 2008 08:27am
I though there was a two base award on a blocked ball.

canump Fri Jul 18, 2008 08:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robertson
I umpire in Canada. Unless I'm mistaken, the rule of thumb here is to always call out the person who is responsible for creating the interference unless he/she has already scored or been put out. Generally this can't be done if the on-deck hitter is the culprit. This might be splitting hairs, but in this case, because of ball four, could the on-deck batter now be considered the new batter, and thus be called out? Otherwise, I agree that the runner on third would be called out for being the runner closest to the plate.

You see something new every year...
I also umpire in Canada, speaking Canada the runner closet to home would be called out on interference by the on deck batter in your post.

canump Fri Jul 18, 2008 08:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby
I though there was a two base award on a blocked ball.
On a blocked ball created by the offence I don't think so. Dead ball runners return to last base.

Dholloway1962 Fri Jul 18, 2008 09:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
On the other hand, if you think there was no play, you cannot have interference; you have a blocked ball (since a live ball was handled and redirected by the offense). Dead ball, and runners return is a valid call, in that situation.
In ASA I don't believe there is a dead ball return runner. ASA requires an out on an interference call. Some of the other organizations allow you to return a runner if there isn't a "play", but not ASA.

A blocked ball, in this situation, would only pertain to offensive equipment not in the game wouldn't it? Not the on-deck batter.

I don't have a rule book with me so someone clarify if they can please.

wadeintothem Fri Jul 18, 2008 09:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dholloway1962
In ASA I don't believe there is a dead ball return runner. ASA requires an out on an interference call. Some of the other organizations allow you to return a runner if there isn't a "play", but not ASA. I don't have a rule book with me so someone clarify if they can please.
I also dont have a rule book, but Blocked ball by offense stuff/people, which I forgot about initially, you return the runners. Blocked ball is not an INT call (which is an out).

Dholloway1962 Fri Jul 18, 2008 09:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem
I also dont have a rule book, but Blocked ball by offense stuff/people, which I forgot about initially, you return the runners. Blocked ball is not an INT call (which is an out).
I edited my post as you were replying to ask about blocked ball.

Dakota Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dholloway1962
...Some of the other organizations allow you to return a runner if there isn't a "play", but not ASA. ...
Of course ASA requires a play for there to be an interference call.

ASA Rule 1
Quote:
INTERFERENCE: The act of an offensive player or team member, umpire or spectator that impedes, hinders, or confuses a defensive player attempting to execute a play.
Contact is not necessary.

IRISHMAFIA Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dholloway1962
In ASA I don't believe there is a dead ball return runner. ASA requires an out on an interference call. Some of the other organizations allow you to return a runner if there isn't a "play", but not ASA.
ASA does not require an out to be called on a blocked ball by the offense. There could be an out called if the umpire determines that the ODB did hinder the defense in making a play on the defense.

Quote:
A blocked ball, in this situation, would only pertain to offensive equipment not in the game wouldn't it? Not the on-deck batter.
The ODB is a non-participant at this point and my not, by rule, interfere with the defense's ability to make a play even if in the ODB's designated area.

whiskers_ump Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
ASA does not require an out to be called on a blocked ball by the offense. There could be an out called if the umpire determines that the ODB did hinder the defense in making a play on the defense.



The ODB is a non-participant at this point and my not, by rule, interfere with the defense's ability to make a play even if in the ODB's designated area.
The ODB is a non-participant at this point and my not, by rule, interfere with the defense's ability to make a play even if in the ODB's designated area.

If this was not the case, then it would be a great weapon for the offensive
team. :(

reccer Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:39am
Ball blocked by offensive equipment
 
Coach here.

I had a game recently where we are on offense and an errant throw from F4 to F3 hit one of our coaches buckets. Blue* called dead ball runner closest to home is out. I asked why he arbitrarily called the runner out, didn't he have some discretion as to determine if a play was being made on the runner. He said, no, that by rule, runner closest to home is out. He was the UIC so I dropped it.

I think he misapplied the rule.

Rule 8, Sec 5 G When the ball is live and is overthrown or is blocked: 3. If the ball becomes blocked due to offensive equipment not involved in the game. Effect: The ball is dead and runners are returned to the last base touched at the time of the blocked ball. If the blocked ball prevented the defense from making an out, the runner being played on is out.


*Blue. a colloquial term of endearment meant to convey respect to the men and women who keep the playing fields from descending into chaos. (I kinda lifted this from wilkopedia referring to officers.)

whiskers_ump Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by reccer
Coach here.

I had a game recently where we are on offense and an errant throw from F4 to F3 hit one of our coaches buckets. Blue* called dead ball runner closest to home is out. I asked why he arbitrarily called the runner out, didn't he have some discretion as to determine if a play was being made on the runner. He said, no, that by rule, runner closest to home is out. He was the UIC so I dropped it.

I think he misapplied the rule.

Rule 8, Sec 5 G When the ball is live and is overthrown or is blocked: 3. If the ball becomes blocked due to offensive equipment not involved in the game. Effect: The ball is dead and runners are returned to the last base touched at the time of the blocked ball. If the blocked ball prevented the defense from making an out, the runner being played on is out.


*Blue. a colloquial term of endearment meant to convey respect to the men and women who keep the playing fields from descending into chaos. (I kinda lifted this from wilkopedia referring to officers.)
Umpires first mistake was allowing the bucket.

IRISHMAFIA Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by reccer
Coach here.

I had a game recently where we are on offense and an errant throw from F4 to F3 hit one of our coaches buckets. Blue* called dead ball runner closest to home is out. I asked why he arbitrarily called the runner out, didn't he have some discretion as to determine if a play was being made on the runner. He said, no, that by rule, runner closest to home is out. He was the UIC so I dropped it.

I think he misapplied the rule.

Rule 8, Sec 5 G When the ball is live and is overthrown or is blocked: 3. If the ball becomes blocked due to offensive equipment not involved in the game. Effect: The ball is dead and runners are returned to the last base touched at the time of the blocked ball. If the blocked ball prevented the defense from making an out, the runner being played on is out.


*Blue. a colloquial term of endearment meant to convey respect to the men and women who keep the playing fields from descending into chaos. (I kinda lifted this from wilkopedia referring to officers.)
Was the bucket "in play"? If so, dumb move coach. It is purely the umpire's judgment as to whether it is interference or not. Apparently, this umpire judged INT.

reccer Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
Was the bucket "in play"? If so, dumb move coach. It is purely the umpire's judgment as to whether it is interference or not. Apparently, this umpire judged INT.

Yes he did judge interference. And yes dumb move coach. And now I don't have quite as much "help" on the sidelines as before :)

But, I believe he should have ruled an out on the runner that in his opinion was being played on. He arbitrarily ruled the runner closest to home out.

whiskers_ump Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by reccer
Yes he did judge interference. And yes dumb move coach. And now I don't have quite as much "help" on the sidelines as before :)

But, I believe he should have ruled an out on the runner that in his opinion was being played on. He arbitrarily ruled the runner closest to home out.
In most tournaments, now that BUCKET is the coaches "easy chair", around
here, UIC/TD's always have us tell coaches 'NO BUCKETS'. If used anway,
and not immediately caught by the umpire, then we penatlize the maximum.
There is no reason for a bucket on the field.

RKBUmp Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:28am
Similar situation to original post, what would you have called.

Runner on 3rd, wild pitch ricochets off catcher and goes to fence on 1st base side just about on extension of 3rd base line. Batter clears and goes all the way back to the fence on 3rd base side, runner is on dead run to plate. Pitcher comes in to cover plate, catcher gets ball, turns and throws without even looking, completely misses the pitcher and actually hits the batter in the leg clear over at the fence. Throw didnt come within 10' of the plate. For what ever reason I dont understand, the batter reaches down and picks up the ball, almost at the exact instant the runner crossed the plate and tosses ithe ball to the catcher. No other defensive players had come in on the play, so there was absoltely no chance that any play on the runner could have been made.

IRISHMAFIA Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by reccer
Yes he did judge interference. And yes dumb move coach. And now I don't have quite as much "help" on the sidelines as before :)

But, I believe he should have ruled an out on the runner that in his opinion was being played on. He arbitrarily ruled the runner closest to home out.
Based on the definition of a blocked ball, any offensive player not involved in the game is treated the same as loose offensive equipment which calls for the runner closest to home to be called out should INT be judged.

Rule 7.1.D specifically addresses interference with the defense's opportunity to make an out on a runner. The EFFECT, also, specifically notes that in this circumstance, the runner closest to home be ruled out.

Dakota Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp
Similar situation to original post, what would you have called.

Runner on 3rd, wild pitch ricochets off catcher and goes to fence on 1st base side just about on extension of 3rd base line. Batter clears and goes all the way back to the fence on 3rd base side, runner is on dead run to plate. Pitcher comes in to cover plate, catcher gets ball, turns and throws without even looking, completely misses the pitcher and actually hits the batter in the leg clear over at the fence. Throw didnt come within 10' of the plate. For what ever reason I dont understand, the batter reaches down and picks up the ball, almost at the exact instant the runner crossed the plate and tosses ithe ball to the catcher. No other defensive players had come in on the play, so there was absoltely no chance that any play on the runner could have been made.
No play, so no interference. Dead ball. Run scores or not depending on timing.

CecilOne Mon Jul 21, 2008 01:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp
the batter reaches down and picks up the ball, almost at the exact instant the runner crossed the plate and tosses ithe ball to the catcher.
I just wonder whether there was someone there to give CPR to the coach. :rolleyes:


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