What Are Your Calls

argodad

youngump wrote
As to 3, I thought you couldn't double dip interference and the IFR. (The interference prevents us from executing the other penalty)

You thought wrong, there YoungUmp. Batter is out on the IFR, but the ball is not dead. If R1 is dumb enough to get hit with a batted ball, then we have INT and a 2nd out. 😎

rwest

It depends on when the collision occurred. Until the ball is put into play by the bunt, F3 can't be considered in the act of fielding a batted ball. Therefore, if the collision occurred before the bunt, I have obstruction, if after and F3 was the player most likely to make a play on the ball, then I have interference.

Scooby

I disagree on #2 if I am reading it correctly. F3 base is charging on the batter squaring and the contact with R1 occurs before the the ball being bunted (my interpition (sp), correct me if I am wrong) (op does not say when the contact happened).
Ruling: OBS...R1 awarded second and B1 to 1st.

SRW

argodad wrote
I agree with SRW -- except for #5. I have OBS on F4. She isn't fielding a batted ball. (No IP considerations--it's just a ball on the batter and runners can advance at the risk of being put out.) So ... ball on the batter, R1 scores, R2 awarded 2B on the OBS.

You can't have OBS. The fielder is not fielding a batted ball. Rule 1 - OBS.

BuggBob

1) Runner was obstructed, by F5, send her back to third. Expect a visit from the defensive coach.
2) If the runner and F3 collide before the ball is bunted…Obstruction, award bases as needed. But if the collision occurred after the ball was bunted… Interference, runner is out, batter may also be out on the interference on a potential double play.
3) IFF for one out, DB out for INT end of the inning.
4) Could it be interference if the batter was not in the running lane?
5) Ball on batter, no illegal pitch, runners advance with liability to be put out. R1 scores, R2 is Obsructed. (Sorry SRW this is the very definition of Obsruction).

Bugg

NCASAUmp

argodad wrote
You thought wrong, there YoungUmp. Batter is out on the IFR, but the ball is not dead. If R1 is dumb enough to get hit with a batted ball, then we have INT and a 2nd out. :cool:

You're correct, assuming F6 is behind the runner. If F6 is in front of the runner and no other fielder had an opportunity to make a play, then you have nothing.

SRW

Ooh you know what... I may retract my answer on #3... we talked about this play at the UIC clinic in 2007 - you can't get 2 outs on an INT with an IF. If I recall, the BR isn't out until the ball is judged fair, and it doesn't become fair until the runner interferes with it... I believe it was a matter of the INT superceding the IF, and only the runner (not the BR) was out.

hmmm I'll have to look that up. 😕

NCASAUmp

BuggBob wrote
1) Runner was obstructed, by F5, send her back to third. Expect a visit from the defensive coach.

Agreed.

BuggBob wrote
2) If the runner and F3 collide before the ball is bunted…Obstruction, award bases as needed. But if the collision occurred after the ball was bunted… Interference, runner is out, batter may also be out on the interference on a potential double play.

Agreed.

BuggBob wrote
3) IFF for one out, DB out for INT end of the inning.

Again, depends on where it occurred, and if another fielder could have had an opportunity to make an out.

BuggBob wrote
4) Could it be interference if the batter was not in the running lane?

I don't think whether or not the BR was in the running lane would affect this play, as the rule, sadly, only pertains to the BR interfering with a throw to 1B. If the BR is running normally, then I'd have no INT. If they are running in a way that puts them too far into fair territory, then I'd have INT, as it would appear that they are intentionally going out of their way to block the throw.

BuggBob wrote
5) Ball on batter, no illegal pitch, runners advance with liability to be put out. R1 scores, R2 is Obsructed.

Bugg

I'll just have to leave this one up to you FP guys. 🙂

NCASAUmp

SRW wrote
Ooh you know what... I may retract my answer on #3... we talked about this play at the UIC clinic in 2007 - you can't get 2 outs on an INT with an IF. If I recall, the BR isn't out until the ball is judged fair, and it doesn't become fair until the runner interferes with it... I believe it was a matter of the INT superceding the IF, and only the runner (not the BR) was out.

hmmm I'll have to look that up. :confused:

A similar play was described at our NUS this year, but the ball hit the BR in the sitch. The correct call in that sitch was dead ball, BR out for INT.

SRW

NCASAUmp wrote
A similar play was described at our NUS this year, but the ball hit the BR in the sitch. The correct call in that sitch was dead ball, BR out for INT.

That may be the play I'm thinking about... 😕

rwest

SRW wrote
That may be the play I'm thinking about... :confused:

Sean,

I believe we had the same play at the 2007 FP Advance Camp held down here in Georgia. So, if we applied the same logic, wouldn't we get two outs here?

NCASAUmp

rwest wrote
Sean,

I believe we had the same play at the 2007 FP Advance Camp held down here in Georgia. So, if we applied the same logic, wouldn't we get two outs here?

If it hits a runner in fair territory, it's a fair ball. BR is out. If the touch was an act of INT, then you have a fair batted ball for the IFF, and INT on the runner.

My key on this is whether or not the defense could make a play on another runner, OTHER than the BR. The BR is out, regardless. Could the defense have made a play on R1 or R2? If yes, then that runner is out, too.

argodad

SRW wrote
You can't have OBS. The fielder is not fielding a batted ball. Rule 1 - OBS.

Are you going without sleep again, Sean? 😉 You can't have INT, because the fielder is not fielding a batted ball.

mdntranger

whiskers_ump wrote
Stolen from another site:

5. And last... this actually came very close to happening. R1 at 3B, R2 at 1B. R2 is stealing on the pitch. Pitcher winds up and the ball comes out during the windmill, heading behind her towards 2B fielder (between 1B and 2B). Fielder charges for ball as R2 heads to second, causing a collision. R1 advances home as R2 gets back to 1B. I presume there are illegal pitch considerations in this one?

For #5, there's an illegal pitch...6-3-G. The ball was not released past the straight line of the body. Also, 6-3-E...the delivery must be below the hip. For the ball to go backwards, I don't see how the delivery can meet the above two criterion.

Manager has option to take the result of the play which I guess would be the lesser of two evils. R2 on 1st or 2nd depending on judgement of umpire with the OBS and R1 scoring and a ball on the batter.....OR.....Illegal Pitch enforced with R1 scoring, R2 on second and a ball on the batter.

rwest

mdntranger wrote
For #5, there's an illegal pitch...6-3-G. The ball was not released past the straight line of the body. Also, 6-3-E...the delivery must be below the hip. For the ball to go backwards, I don't see how the delivery can meet the above two criterion.

Manager has option to take the result of the play which I guess would be the lesser of two evils. R2 on 1st or 2nd depending on judgement of umpire with the OBS and R1 scoring and a ball on the batter.....OR.....Illegal Pitch enforced with R1 scoring, R2 on second and a ball on the batter.

Its either a ball on the batter and a live ball (FP) per 6.11 (FP) or its a no pitch (SP) per 6.9(SP).

SRW

argodad wrote
Are you going without sleep again, Sean? 😉 You can't have INT, because the fielder is not fielding a batted ball.

Larry - read the definitions of INT and OBS again... it doesn't have to be a batted ball to have INT. The fielder is attempting to execute a play - doesn't matter if it's a batted ball or not.

How do you think we get INT on a runner breaking up a double play?

😉

argodad

SRW wrote
Larry - read the definitions of INT and OBS again... it doesn't have to be a batted ball to have INT. The fielder is attempting to execute a play - doesn't matter if it's a batted ball or not.

How do you think we get INT on a runner breaking up a double play?

😉

We get interference on the breaking up the DP when the fielder has the ball. But in this case, the fielder (without the ball) caused the runner to slow or deviate from her path = OBS.

IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

1. R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. B1 hits ball to CF. R1 rounds 3B and heads home as R2 rounds 2B and heads to 3B. CF throws to cutoff, who turns and throws home. Catcher receives ball as R1 slides safely home. Fielder at 3B, anticipating cutoff throw that never came, was standing on 3B as R2 reaches 3B and makes contact, impeding R2's turn at 3B. FU indicates obstruction and 3B coach tells R2 to head home, where catcher is still holding the ball from play on R1. Catcher waits and politely tags R2 out as she jogs in to the plate. R2 wasn't obstructed from reaching 3B, she was obstructed from rounding the base. Catcher still had the ball, so there's no judgement R2 would have scored on the play had obstruction not occured.

Dead ball, R2 back to 3B

2. R1 at first, B1 squares to bunt. Fielder at 1B was playing behind the bag and charges, just as R1 takes off on the pitch. Fielder and R1 collide. Pitcher fields ball down the 1B line that fielder at 1B would have legitimately played, and throws to 2B for the force.

OBS

3. R1 at 2B, R2 at 1B, 1 out. B1 hit pop fly to SS. Umpire calls infield fly, B1 out. SS loses ball in the sun and starts yelling she lost it. R1 sees an opportunity and takes off for 3B. Ball comes down and hits R1 on the helmet as she runs to 3B. Ball skips away as R1 ends up at 3B and R2 at 2B.

R1 is 3rd out.

4. R1 at 3B, 1 out. B1 bunts the ball up the 1B line. Fielder at 1B charges as R1 heads home. B1, realizing she will be tagged out, stops and is standing still on the foul line. Fielder realizes she no longer has a double play opportunity, abandons the tag on B1 and throws home to keep the run from scoring. Throw from left-handed fielder hits B1, who is still standing still and upright in the baseline, not far from home plate. R1 scores.

DMF

5. And last... this actually came very close to happening. R1 at 3B, R2 at 1B. R2 is stealing on the pitch. Pitcher winds up and the ball comes out during the windmill, heading behind her towards 2B fielder (between 1B and 2B). Fielder charges for ball as R2 heads to second, causing a collision. R1 advances home as R2 gets back to 1B. I presume there are illegal pitch considerations in this one?

Live ball, OBS on F4. R1 scores, R2 awarded 2B, ball on the batter.

IRISHMAFIA

SRW wrote
Larry - read the definitions of INT and OBS again... it doesn't have to be a batted ball to have INT. The fielder is attempting to execute a play - doesn't matter if it's a batted ball or not.

How do you think we get INT on a runner breaking up a double play?

😉

Sorry, don't buy that one at all. That is the definition of INT. Now, cite the rule which applies that definition to the play at hand.

SRW

Looking at the pure definition of Interference, I had an out on #5.

However, looking at ASA 8-7-J, I can't get Interference on this play.

I've got to go with the Obstruction on this. ASA 8-5-B

Y'all is right. I wuz wrong.